

Episode 453: John Willis on how Kubernetes won, digital transformation and Deming
Feb 9, 2024
John Willis, an influential author and consultant in DevOps, discusses why Kubernetes became the dominant force in container orchestration. He explores the struggles large companies face in digital transformation and the importance of systems thinking, drawing on insights from Dr. Deming. Willis emphasizes the necessity of embracing failure as a pathway to innovation, the delicate dance of investment decisions in tech, and the rich interplay between culture and technology, illustrated through his punk rock background.
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Why Kubernetes Prevailed
- Kubernetes won due to a confluence: Google's credibility, Docker's ease, and a market vacuum for orchestration.
- It was not the technically best choice but benefited from brand, timing, and ecosystem momentum.
Personal Docker Regrets
- John Willis avoided watching the Kubernetes documentary because it reminds him of painful Docker stock losses.
- He recounts Docker-era stories about Swarm and internal confusion at Docker.
Google's Scale Created Kubernetes
- Google built abstractions (Borg→Omega→Kubernetes) to hide complexity from developers at extreme scale.
- Most companies never faced Google's scale, so adopting those abstractions required translation and investment.