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One of the main strategies discussed in the podcast episode is the approach of driving up the costs of meat, dairy, and eggs through welfare improvements. The idea is that by internalizing the external costs associated with these products, their prices will increase, leading to reduced consumer demand. This shift towards higher prices aims to create a tipping point where plant-based alternatives become more economically favorable, ultimately decreasing the consumption of animal products.
An effective tactic highlighted in the podcast involves leveraging internal discontent within industries as a means to drive change. By identifying and engaging with individuals within companies who share concerns about certain practices, opportunities arise to influence policy decisions. Disgruntled employees within organizations can become vocal advocates for reform, providing valuable insight and pressure points for driving ethical changes.
The synergy between advancing animal welfare and price increases is emphasized as a dual win in the episode. Incremental welfare improvements not only enhance the well-being of animals but also have the potential to raise the prices of animal products, thereby reducing consumer demand. This approach underscores the value of achieving ethical improvements while driving up costs to expedite the transition towards plant-based alternatives.
The discussion delves into how certain countries, particularly influential ones like in Europe, can set global standards that impact industry practices worldwide. By setting stringent policies and requirements related to animal welfare and environmental factors, these leading countries can influence and elevate standards in other regions. This highlights the significant role of influential nations in shaping industry practices globally.
Legislation and corporate policy play pivotal roles in driving impactful change in the United States, as seen with initiatives like Prop 12. By securing commitments from major companies first, legislative changes become more achievable. This strategy emphasizes the synergy between corporate policy changes and legislative actions, showcasing the importance of public awareness in influencing lawmakers and businesses.
While corporate welfare campaigns have been successful in certain countries like Brazil, varied challenges persist, such as slower progress in Mexico. There is a risk of companies slipping on their pledges, necessitating vigilant enforcement. To avoid overreliance on a single strategy, diversification of intervention approaches and a balance between commitment and enforcement are crucial.
The Transformation Program aims to transition farmers from factory farming to plant-based agriculture by providing consultancy and support for transitioning their operations. By flipping the narrative, it seeks to create bridges between animal advocates and rural communities. This initiative shows promise in addressing the economic challenges faced by poultry farmers and offers pathways to sustainable alternatives.
Expanding initiatives globally, particularly in non-US countries like Southeast Asia, India, Brazil, and China, is a key focus. Establishing an international panel to end factory farming, investing in political power, and building a people-powered political movement are crucial steps. Prioritizing practical solutions for fish and broiler welfare, along with a significant advertising budget to promote alternatives, can enhance the impact of animal welfare efforts worldwide.
Measuring the impact of short-term actions in effective altruism is stressed upon as critical. The speaker highlights the potential negative effects of solely focusing on short-term outcomes, as seen in the case of strategies aiming for rapid success without considering the groundwork laid by previous long-term efforts. Additionally, the limitations of solely funding plant-based companies over advocacy efforts are discussed, emphasizing the need for a balanced approach to drive animal welfare progress.
The value of narratives and storytelling in fostering long-term support and driving transformation in the animal rights movement is underscored. The speaker advocates for leveraging narratives to reshape the perception of animal rights activists, moving away from adversarial stereotypes to building inclusive and positive representations. Emphasizing the impact of narratives in changing attitudes and beliefs, the discussion points to the vital role of storytelling in advocacy work.
The importance of fostering diversity, equity, and inclusion within animal advocacy organizations is emphasized as a crucial but often underrated aspect. Addressing the need for broader representation across various social identities, including racial, political, and religious diversities, the speaker highlights the necessity of building an inclusive workplace culture. By recognizing and valuing diverse perspectives, organizations can generate new ideas and innovative solutions to advance their advocacy goals.
For a chance to prevent enormous amounts of suffering, would you be brave enough to drive five hours to a remote location to meet a man who seems likely to be your enemy, knowing that it might be an ambush?
Today’s guest — Leah Garcés — was.
That man was a chicken farmer named Craig Watts, and that ambush never happened. Instead, Leah and Craig forged a friendship and a partnership focused on reducing suffering on factory farms.
Leah, now president of Mercy For Animals (MFA), tried for years to get access to a chicken farm to document the horrors she knew were happening behind closed doors. It made sense that no one would let her in — why would the evil chicken farmers behind these atrocities ever be willing to help her take them down?
But after sitting with Craig on his living room floor for hours and listening to his story, she discovered that he wasn’t evil at all — in fact he was just stuck in a cycle he couldn’t escape, forced to use methods he didn’t endorse.
Links to learn more, summary and full transcript.
Most chicken farmers have enormous debts they are constantly struggling to pay off, make very little money, and have to work in terrible conditions — their main activity most days is finding and killing the sick chickens in their flock. Craig was one of very few farmers close to finally paying off his debts, which made him slightly less vulnerable to retaliation. That opened up the possibility for him to work with Leah.
Craig let Leah openly film inside the chicken houses, and shared highly confidential documents about the antibiotics put into the feed. That led to a viral video, and a New York Times story. The villain of that video was Jim Perdue, CEO of one of the biggest meat companies in the world. They show him saying, "Farmers are happy. Chickens are happy. There's a lot of space. They're clean." And then they show the grim reality.
For years, Perdue wouldn’t speak to Leah. But remarkably, when they actually met in person, she again managed to forge a meaningful relationship with a natural adversary. She was able to put aside her utter contempt for the chicken industry and see Craig and Jim as people, not cartoonish villains.
Leah believes that you need to be willing to sit down with anyone who has the power to solve a problem that you don’t — recognising them as human beings with a lifetime of complicated decisions behind their actions. And she stresses that finding or making a connection is really important. In the case of Jim Perdue, it was the fact they both had adopted children. Because of this, they were able to forget that they were supposed to be enemies in that moment, and build some trust.
The other lesson that Leah highlights is that you need to look for win-wins and start there, rather than starting with disagreements. With Craig Watts, instead of opening with “How do I end his job”, she thought, “How can I find him a better job?” If you find solutions where everybody wins, you don’t need to spend resources fighting the former enemy. They’ll come to you.
It turns out that conditions in chicken houses are perfect for growing hemp or mushrooms, so MFA have started their ‘Transfarmation project’ to help farmers like Craig escape from the prison of factory farming by converting their production from animals to plants. To convince farmers to leave behind a life of producing suffering, all you need to do is find them something better — which for many of them is almost anything else.
Leah and Rob also talk about:
• Why conditions for farmers are so bad
• The benefits of creating a public ranking, and scoring companies against each other
• The difficulty of enforcing corporate pledges
• And much more
Chapters:
Producer: Keiran Harris
Audio mastering: Ben Cordell
Transcriptions: Sofia Davis-Fogel
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