[PREVIEW] The Episode Corinne Has Been WAITING For!

Welcome to Indulgence Gospel After Dark. This month we are talking about… seasonal color analysis!

We’ll be getting into:

⭐️ The complicated legacy of Color Me Beautiful

⭐️ Is color analysis a little bit racist?

⭐️ Is color analysis…a diet?

⭐️ What colors can Virginia wear, and why are there so many shades of taupe?

To hear the whole thing, read the full transcript, and join us in the comments, you’ll need to join Extra Butter, our premium subscription tier.

Extra Butter costs just $99 per year. (Regular paid subscribers, the remaining value of your subscription will be deducted from that total!)

Extra Butter subscribers also get access to posts like:

Dating While Fat

What to do when you miss your smaller body

And did Virginia really get divorced over butter?

And Extra Butters also get DM access and other perks. Plus Extra Butter ensures that the Burnt Toast community can always stay an ad- and sponsor-free space—which is crucial for body liberation journalism.

PS. If Extra Butter isn’t the right tier for you, remember that you still get access behind almost every other paywall with a regular paid subscription.

Episode 193 Transcript

Corinne

I have been waiting for this episode! I’ve been waiting months!

Virginia

You really have been waiting for months.

Corinne

Listeners, I am really excited to announce that we are finally going to talk about seasonal color analysis. Some of you probably know that I got mine done a while back. And then I had to drag Virginia kicking and screaming.

Virginia

Not even! I just kept forgetting about it.

Corinne

I had to scroll back years and years through her Instagram to find pictures that were suitable for submission.

Virginia

I was so lukewarm on this topic. It was also a complicated process. There were a lot of photos you had to find. And I just kept being like, “I’m sorry, Corinne, I didn’t do it. I didn’t do it.” And then you finally were like, “I will find all your photos.” So Corinne did my homework for me for this episode.

Corinne

It was maybe slightly overbearing.

Virginia

No, no, no, no. I mean, here we are. It’s going to be an amazing episode. I’m very excited.

Corinne

Okay. So, I don’t know what your results are, and I have a lot of questions for you, because I feel like you have a more in-depth history with this subject. So I will just say I first encountered this book in young adulthood or late childhood perhaps because one of my good friend’s mom had it. The book I’m talking about is Color Me Beautiful by Carole Jackson.

Virginia

The Bible.

Corinne

It was written in 1980. The basic concept for anyone who’s not familiar—though it’s hard to believe at this point that anyone would not be familiar.

Virginia

If you’ve met Corinne you are familiar because it’s like 40 percent of her personality at this point.

Corinne

Yes. What is your season, and what is your sign?

So, Carole Jackson divides everyone into four color seasons—winter, spring, summer, fall—based on the color of your skin, hair, eyes. For each of those seasons, she recommends which colors you can wear to make you look best.

Then the second half of this is just that the seasonal color analysis thing has really gained popularity through TikTok in the past few years.

Virginia

It’s gotten so big again! It was gone. I didn’t think about my colors for 20 years, and now it’s back.

Corinne

Part of it is I think these videos where they show people getting color analysis are just algorithm candy. Because it’s so subjective and divisive, it’s so good for social media.

Virginia

It’s that meme of what color is this dress? But with people’s faces. Remember that dress? And it was like, is it gold? Is it blue? It’s like that, but more.

Corinne

Yeah, as a person who spends way too much time on TikTok, I sort of got obsessed with watching these. Then I got specifically obsessed with this person, Carol Brailey, who was doing color analysis on TikTok. And then I decided that I needed to pay her to do my my colors.

Virginia

And then you decided that I needed to pay her to do my colors as well. This is not sponsored!

Corinne

Yes. We paid for this out of our wallets.

So I want to hear about your personal history with color analysis. You had your colors done as a kid, right? Or no? you did it yourself?

Virginia

I did it with the book. My mom and I got really into the book in probably seventh grade. So this would have been like 1992, maybe 1993 is when I got very into the whole color analysis.

I had a copy of Color Me Beautiful. My mom had done her colors. I think she had just started a new corporate job, and was buying new suits, getting her whole look together. And so she was interested in it to simplify dressing for work. And I, as a seventh grader, also aspired to be a corporate business woman and was obsessed with it too.

I did all my friends colors. For my birthday that year, my mom got me this little wallet. It kind of looked like an old checkbook, and inside were little fabric snippets of all of your colors. So you could carry it with you clothes shopping. I would bring it with me, and hold things up to it and see if it was my color. I was in deep.

And, yeah, I loved it. I think it was a point in my life where I was trying to decode beauty. Like, I was reading a lot of fashion magazines. I was very aware of who all the big 80s and 90s supermodels were. I was trying to decode beauty and girlhood and how I was supposed to appear in the world, and Color Me Beautiful and color analysis gives you this roadmap, right? It gives you a very clear set of rules, which, of course, is why I have more mixed feelings about it now, as someone who professionally analyzes systems that give us rules on how to live our lives.

Some of the Photos Corinne Submitted

Corinne

Yeah, that really, really makes sense. Should you tell us what your results were then and your results now? Or, how should we do this? Should I guess what your results are?

Virginia

I actually do want you to guess. I think that would be fun!

Corinne

Wait, okay, first of all, are your results now different from your results then?

Virginia

No.

Corinne

I feel like I know what you were. You were a summer, right?

Virginia

I was, and I am… a true summer.

Corinne

Wow, true summer.

So what was it like to receive the email from Carol Brailey announcing that you’re a true summer?

Virginia

Well, step one was I missed the email and it went to spam for a month. And then I had to ask for them to send it again. You were so mad that you’d done all the work to gather the photos and that I didn’t even keep track of it.

But then I got it, and I think I was hoping for it to be different because I would be like, ooh, plot twist. It has evolved. Or like, this is something new and different. And to be clear, Carol Brailey is a different person from Carole Jackson who wrote the Color Me Beautiful book. There are many people now who do color analysis now, they aren’t all named Carol. But Carol Brailey is one of the most popular ones. She seems very skilled at it. That’s why we’re here. That’s why we did ours. But there are plenty of options.

And yet, while this is supposed to be this new and improved high tech version of this—and I never did before have somebody else analyze me, I analyzed myself using the book—it still feels like exactly the same thing.

They send you a PDF with your results and explains all these details. And then there’s these photos of your face surrounded by different colors, which maybe we can look at. But then they also send you color references, and the palette is exactly the same. I was like, I’m in 1992.

It’s like…exactly the same color palette. It’s exactly the same.! She gives guidance on what color jewelry to wear? And I was like, yes, that’s right, white metals. I remember gray pearls and rose pearls. Like, it all came back. It’s exactly the same.

And I don’t know if this is accurate or if this is just because I did do it in the 90s, but the palette feels very 90s to me. It doesn’t feel very now.

Corinne

Fascinating.

Virginia

Corinne, being a true spring, can wear warm colors.

And I have to wear cool colors, so I have a lot of blues and purples and light grays. Winter would be the cool season that wears jewel tones and black. I’m not supposed to wear black. Winters wear the bolder colors, and summers wear muted colors. Like, one of my colors is dried periwinkle and another is faded blueberry and another is purple smoke. And mauve!

Corinne

Muted, cool colors.

Virginia

Yes, soft strawberry and soft burgundy. And I’m just here to say, I’m never going to wear soft burgundy. I’m not going to do it. Not going to wear dusty rose. I have like four shades of taupe I’m allowed to wear.

Corinne

Yeah, and didn’t you recently say you were anti-gray?

Virginia

Yes! Now I will say the gray that I was talking about is a terrible color for me. It is definitely more of a spring gray. It has a lot of yellow undertones. She gave me a graphite, soft white, zinc, smokey taupe, regular taupe, light taupe, rose taupe. So many taupes.

Corinne

I always thought that I was a summer because I always thought I was cool toned, so this whole thing was very shocking to me. But I do feel similarly about my colors. To me, when I look at the spring color palette, I’m like, oh yeah. It says coral, peach, which are just like, no. It is kind of interesting to play around with.

Virginia

Colors are very trendy, and I am someone who really loves color. I do think part of why I get so excited about this as a kid is because I do really love color.

But, like, I have learned that in my house I should paint my walls white, because otherwise, I’ll want to repaint my walls every year. And so I have white walls in my house, and then a lot of color in throw pillows and art and things that I can change up more. Because I’ll get really excited about a color combination and go hard on it for like a year and a half, and then I’ll be into something else. And this color palette thing doesn’t really give you room to do that. Like, I’m not allowed to wear neons, but I love my neon orange sports bra. It’s more of a coral, but it’s definitely not a summer color. The closest I get to any warm colors I can wear a shade of yellow called soft lemon.

Corinne

Yeah, yellow. Not a big one for me.

Virginia

I mean, I’m not going to wear a lot of yellow. I do have a soft lemon tank top now that I think about it, and I do enjoy that color? But it’s like the one color on the palette I’m excited about, I think, because it’s kind of an outlier from all the taupes and periwinkles.

Corinne

Interesting. I like taupe and periwinkle, unfortunately.

Virginia

I’ll trade you some mauve for your coral.

Corinne

I want to see your face on the little color backgrounds.

Virginia

Okay. We’re sharing screens now.

So Carol Bailey does this thing where you send her a photo with your hair scraped back, or covered by a white towel. So it’s really just your face, and then she surrounds your face with different colors to see how you look. This is the process.

Corinne

When I look at these, I really feel like some look better, and sometimes the other one looks better.

Virginia

What is jumping out at you?

Corinne

I like the bright green.

Virginia

I can see the way the blue looks better on me, but is it just because I have blue eyes, so it matches.

Corinne

The bright green makes your skin look nice.

Virginia

Thank you! I don’t think the yellow makes my skin look nice. I will say that in the orange, I kind of like that hot neon. And these are all colors I’m not supposed to be wearing.

Corinne

I think there’s a lot to consider. Is this based in science? No, not really. Color is kind of subjective.

I think another thing worth talking about is that this is a system developed for and by white women. The original book by Carole Jackson puts all people of color into two of the four categories. But with this TikTok resurgence, there have been people of color embracing and adapting it. I think now there are people who will assign any season to dark skin tones.

Virginia

Yes, in the original Color Me Beautiful book, every Black person was a winter, which is absurd.

Does Carol Brailey have more nuance?

Corinne

Honestly, I don’t know if Carol Brailey does, but I’ve seen Tiktoks where people are saying, like, this Black person is clearly a spring or this, like, Pakistani woman looks good in spring colors.

I think there is stuff on YouTube that offers seasonal color analysis for people of color and stuff on Reddit.

Is the system as a whole racist?

Virginia

Yeah. The origins, I think, are problematic.

Corinne

Also, in terms of fatness, there’s a way that maybe focusing on colors and wearing the colors the flatter you most is sort of a way of—

Virginia

They are supposed to be slimming.

Corinne

Yeah, or just trying to adhere to beauty standards in whatever way you can.

Virginia

Yes, I think there’s some definite anti-fatness in the way wearing your colors is often framed as a slimming thing. And there’s a lot of ageism. Like a lot of it is, “the wrong colors will be so aging.” It will make you look dull and old.

There was a note in the Carol Brailey materials that “your natural hair color around age 20 is ideal,” so if you’re older and color your hair, you should bring a photo of that color to your stylist to match. And we had to send photos of our younger selves, from childhood, teenage years, 20s. They were looking back at how you looked when you were young to figure out what you should look like now, which is a loaded way to think about that. Like, am I supposed to still look like my 22 year old self? Which, I’ve shared photos! I had dyed blonde hair at the time! It was not a good look. Or am I supposed to look like me at 44 this is who I am? This is how I look now, and it’s okay that I don’t look like I did when I was 16.

Corinne

Yeah. I mean, Carol Brailey has gray hair and doesn’t dye her hair.

Virginia

And that’s the right gray for her, I’m sure.

Corinne

I met with her after mine to ask her some follow up questions on this. Because I also was like, wait, so does this mean I need to lighten my hair or something? And she was basically like, no, like, do whatever you want. She said that some people would say that whatever color your hair turns as you age will work with your color. Because my hair is starting to go gray, and gray is not a spring color.

But I do think it’s probably easier to analyze pictures from when you have your natural hair color.

Virginia

But I do think there’s something about the whole concept — If you wear your colors, you will look thinner, you will look younger, and that is what we’re buying into. And it’s interesting to think about me as a 12 year old buying into all of this. Like, was I trying to look like my eight year old self?

Corinne

I heard someone talking about it and saying, “Have we considered that this is just another way to get people to spend money?” Because you get your colors done, and then you’re like, okay, now I have to buy all this new stuff or redo my makeup cabinet or whatever.

Virginia

I think one area where it feels useful to me is probably makeup, because you are with makeup, trying to actually match your skin color. I find picking a foundation or a concealer absolutely so confusing always. And I was like, oh, maybe this will clarify that process a little bit.

So, I Think I Like Makeup Now?
Virginia Sole-Smith · Jan 10
Read full story

But the idea that you would redo your whole closet to focus only on these colors is wild to me. A lot of these colors are not even in stores right now. They’re not current colors that people are wearing. I’m not going to find my third shade of taupe anywhere. I’m just going to have to live without it. And I don’t want to get rid of stuff that I like wearing, like I like wearing black, and that seems fine. I am not going to replace it all with graphite.

Corinne

Black is really the hardest one. One of my friends who’s an artist also pointed out, the color analysis colors that work for you are colors that harmonize with your skin and stuff. But you don’t always need to or want to harmonize. Sometimes a pale person with light hair looks cool wearing black because it’s contrasting.

Virginia

When I look at the thing with my face with all the different colors, if I really stare at it, I can see that my skin tone changes slightly based on what colors are surrounding my face. But since I don’t wear balaclavas all the time, I don’t need to worry that I’m gonna wear something green that’s going to make my cheeks look slightly less optimal.

I will say: The palette that I’m the least drawn to is the autumn palette. I’ve never been one for oranges, browns. That whole year where mustard was a really trendy color was a hard time for me personally. Because I don’t want to wear it. I don’t want to wear browns and terra cotta colors.

And maybe that’s because, instinctively, I don’t think they look good on me? But I also just think I don’t like those colors as much, and that’s fine.

But if you like a color that’s not in your palette, the idea that you wouldn’t wear it just seems so silly to me.

Have you found since you did your colors that it is it changing your shopping habits? What are you noticing?

Corinne

I think in some ways it has made me a little more open to experimentation, because some of the colors were just so off my usual, I just never would buy something like coral, or peach, or whatever.

Virginia

And yet you do look great in that coral peach shirt!

Corinne

Yeah, I have this pinky peachy shirt that I bought a while ago intending to dye, and it has just been hanging in my closet. Then after I did the color analysis, I pulled it out, and I was like, oh, this actually does look kind of good on me. And then, yeah, I’ve experimented with buying a few things.

It’s actually so hard to find the right colors out in the wild. I’ll buy something, being like, oh, I think this is a spring color. And then I get it, and I’m like, oh, no, this is actually too bright. But I do kind of enjoy it, it’s fun to think about color.

The most helpful kind of thing that I’ve learned is that the spring colors are supposed to be colors that look like they have both white and yellow mixed into them.

Virginia

Oh, that’s interesting.

Corinne

They’re tints, warm tints. So I’ve been thinking about that. But it definitely hasn’t completely changed how I dress or anything.

At this point in my life, I’m not a person that wear wears makeup. And when I have or did wear makeup, I was pretty much always wearing cool toned makeup, and I thought it looked fine! So.

Virginia

You were just going about your day, and it was okay.

Corinne

I remember wearing kind of raspberry lip and cheek kind of color, and I thought it looked good. So that’s hilarious. I don’t know.

Virginia

You thought you were cool-toned, because you are a little pinkish?

Corinne

My skin is very pink. And I would describe my hair as, like, dirty blonde, or ash blonde. I thought I was muted.

Virginia

I don’t think you’re muted. As as a former student of Carol Jackson, I immediately clocked you as a Spring. I was not at all surprised.

Corinne

A few people have said to me, “Oh yeah, I knew that.” And I’m like, well, why didn’t you tell me?

Virginia

Well, it’s weird to meet people and be like, “Do you want to know what your color season is?” It’s this made up thing that doesn’t matter!

Corinne

I’ve discussed it with so many people. I remember as a kid, my friend who had the book, I think she was an autumn—shout out to Emma, if you’re listening. I don’t even remember if I figured out mine out then. I don’t think I could figure it out back then, either. So I don’t know, maybe I just have skewed self perception.

Virginia

That’s hilarious. I think I didn’t want to tell you, because I wanted you to go on this journey of personal growth. I just didn’t think it was for me to name your color palette for you.

Corinne

I look at you and maybe it’s the painting behind you, but I feel like your skin looks kind of golden.

Virginia

I know, I’m sitting in front of an orange painting because I play it fast and loose with color palettes. It has pink in it, too though?

Corinne

That’s true. Maybe you should commission a summer colors painting to be sit in front of. Actually, you should send me that painting.

Virginia

Yes, you need this painting behind you. I need something else. Okay, good plan.

Yeah, I don’t think it’s going to change anything for me, mostly because I think I’m going to not think about it again once we’re done with this conversation.

But also because I’ve been on my color journey already. I did this 30 years ago at this point. And it ended up being a frustrating experience trying to shop for the colors.

And at the same time, I will hold that together with: I think I do dress as a summer quite often. Like I do think, whether it is because I did this as a 12 year old, or because I just am drawn to these colors, I have a lot of blues, I have a lot of pinks. Blue and pink are probably my favorite colors. Like, it makes sense. But I’m just still going to wear black, and if I feel like wearing a yellow, I will.

Corinne

Okay.

Well, if someone came to you and said, “I’m getting really into color analysis, Virginia. Is it a diet?” What would you say?

Virginia

I would say…it is. It’s not not a diet, guys. It’s a system that creates a lot of rules. I think if it can create freedom for you, if you’re someone who gets overwhelmed with decisions and you want fewer options, and this feels like a way to sift through some noise when you’re shopping, I can see that being helpful.

But if you are doing it, and you find it creates stress because you feel like you can’t wear something you like, or you don’t feel as good about yourself in something because it’s the wrong color…then we’ve entered diet territory.

Corinne

It is kind of that morning routine, self-optimization thing, like minimalism, where you’re like, “If I just have this one tool, then everything will be easier.”

Virginia

I just don’t think that knowing your colors makes anything about getting dressed and navigating beauty standards easier. Like I don’t think it does. It’s just one piece of such a complicated puzzle.

Corinne

Yeah, I mean, I have certainly discovered that myself. Because, like I said, I’m like, oh here’s a spring color. And then I’m like, wait, this actually isn’t a spring color.

Virginia

Right. It’s just another set of things to now feel like you’re getting wrong.

Corinne

Yeah? And I’m like, “I’m a summer!” and I’m like, “oh no, I’m not a summer at all.”

Virginia

Do I even know myself?

Corinne

I do not.

Virginia

So I think it’s a little diet-y. I think it’s a weird system. I think the racist origins are problematic. I think white women are really good at creating complex systems that we have to adhere to. And maybe this is one we let go, guys! I don’t know.

That said, if it gives you great joy to know you are a winter, spring, summer, fall, we’re here for you. We’re not trying to rain on your parade.

---

Butter

Virginia

I have a good Butter. I’m excited about my Butter. I’ve kept it off the socials this week so that you can be blown away about my Butter.

Corinne

I’m really excited.

Virginia

We got chickens!

Corinne

Oh my God! Wow!

Virginia

I feel like it’s a good Butter. So the back story is my 11-year-old has been asking for chickens for five years, I would say. One of the schools she went to many years ago had a flock of chickens that she was very in love with. And she has a good friend with chickens. We live in an area where a lot of people have chickens. So basically, anytime we encounter a chicken, she’d be like, “Why don’t we have chickens? Why don’t we have chickens?”

And we do have a big garden and we are a place that one could have chickens, but her dad was never into it at all. And then, after the divorce, initially, I was like, “I will get chickens!” And then I was like, “Virginia, don’t make your complicated life more complicated. What are you doing?” How about you figure out how to co-parent and be a single parent and take care of the house by yourself?

So I did that instead, which was the right call. And we did, as you know, during that time, get kittens. So I kicked the chicken can down the curb a little ways with the kittens. But now my boyfriend Jack is someone who has had chickens many times in his life. And basically, as soon as he came to my house, he was like, “Why don’t you have chickens?” And then once he met my kids, they immediately started conspiring, and now there is a flock of eight baby chicks in my house right now as I talk to you.

Corinne

Wow. Okay, so where are the chickens going to live in the house?

Virginia

They’re in the house right now because they’re only two weeks old. They have to be in a brood box for six weeks until they get bigger and have their true feathers. But in the meantime, Jack’s working on a coop. There’s going to be a coop or a chicken tractor. I don’t know.

And I’m super into it now, because I don’t have to do any of the work, because my, my 11 year old is on it. She did write out three pages of instructions for me for when she goes to her dad’s house, but I think I can handle it. Because it is actually just food and water. But there were many instructions on how to properly handle the chicks. I’m ready for the challenge, and then I’m going to get eggs. I’m going to have so many eggs!

Corinne

That is awesome. I’m jealous. And also, you can feed them your food scraps!

Virginia

I know I was just about to say that was the other big selling point. I have complicated feelings about our level of food waste, because I have children who are selective eaters. And it is a lot of food waste sometimes! We’re starting to compost again, but chickens eating the scraps would be awesome.

Corinne

That’s so cool.

Virginia

So stay tuned for chicken reports as part of Garden Toast this year.

Corinne

How did the kittens feel about the chickens?

Virginia

Well, we’re keeping the chickens behind a closed door so the cats cannot get to them.

Penelope, our dog, is very curious about the chicks, but she goes to a doggy daycare where they have chickens, so she’s very used to chickens. So I think that will be fine. And then the cats are indoor cats, and the chickens will be outside chickens, and hopefully they will not meet one another.

Corinne

Wow, that’s awesome. That’s a really good butter!

Virginia

I sat on it all week so I could blow your mind. It’s pretty exciting. I’ll send you eggs somehow.

Corinne

Okay, great. Thank you.

I’m going to recommend a book which I’m actually not even finished with yet, but feel pretty confident about.

I’m about 3/4 of the way through Stag Dance which is Torrey Peters’ new book. It’s being called a novel and short stories, I think. But it’s basically four, I would call them stories. One is just longer than the others, and they’re all different genres. I have read 3/4 so far, and they’re just very interesting, very thought provoking. I really liked her last book, which was Detransition, Baby. This is a really different vibe, but also just really smart and thought provoking.

Virginia

I’m literally texting my book club as you speak, because we have been in a state of malaise is trying to pick our next book. And we all loved Detransition, Baby.

Chickens and an excellent queer novel and short stories—what a delightful combination! I’m here for it.

Well, this was a great episode. I am glad you finally made me do colors. I hope you feel some closure on this topic now that you know my season.

Corinne

I do.

Virginia

I’m glad. And thank you again for pulling all my photos together.

--

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow me on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, and Big Undies—subscribe for 20% off!

The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.

Our theme music is by Farideh.

Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.

Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!