S2 Ep1148: Jesus, the Flesh, and the War of Wants: Dr. A.J. Swoboda
Jan 29, 2024
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Dr. A.J. Swoboda, associate professor of Bible and Theology, discusses desire, self-denial, and the therapeutic benefit of communal confession of sin. He emphasizes the importance of slow thinking on tough topics and the need to resist the overwhelming amount of information. They explore the integration of art and culture into writing and the concept of a 'Viagra society' where loving Jesus arouses godly desire. They also touch on scripture engagement, delayed gratification, and the longing for Eden through smell and memories.
Order your desires by loving the right things the most and the least things the less.
Embrace waiting as a core aspect of being human and find joy and growth in the process.
Prioritize and discern which resources or topics are most significant for personal growth instead of succumbing to overwhelming intellectual consumption.
Deep dives
The Power of Ordering Desires
The podcast episode explores the concept of ordering desires, inspired by Saint Augustine's idea of the ordering of loves. It emphasizes the importance of learning to love the right things the most and the least things the less. The guest shares his personal struggle with desires and how he discovered that desires reveal deeper issues that need to be addressed. He discusses the need for restraint and the recognition that we cannot have and do everything. The lesson is to prioritize and focus on the most important desires that align with our values and purpose.
Learning to Wait and Delay Gratification
The podcast highlights the significance of waiting and delaying gratification, particularly in our current culture of instant gratification. It references God's asynchronous creation of humans and the unique human attribute of both desire and the call to wait. Waiting is seen as a core aspect of being human and is linked to faith and patience. The discussion highlights the importance of embracing waiting as part of the journey, finding joy and growth in the process rather than succumbing to dissatisfaction and rushing for immediate results.
Navigating the Intellectual Overload
The podcast addresses the overwhelm of intellectual consumption and the pressure to constantly consume information. The guest shares his own struggle with feeling the need to consume numerous books, articles, and podcasts to stay knowledgeable in various subjects. However, he emphasizes the importance of prioritizing and discerning which resources or topics are most significant and relevant to individual growth and development. This involves recognizing limitations, embracing the capacity for waiting and learning, and choosing depth over rushing for quantity.
The Healing Power of Confession and the Importance of Community
Confession and the development of confessional communities have proven to be powerful sources of healing and growth. For instance, John Wesley's ministry witnessed tremendous expansion by creating communities where individuals could gather and confess their sins to one another. The practice of confession, where people can openly share their deepest desires and struggles, not only deflates the power of those desires but also fosters healing. In the absence of such a safe space for confession, people often seek outlets on the internet or social media. However, having a community for confession is essential as it fulfills the inherent need for humans to confess and find healing through the process.
The Loss of Desire in a World of Endless Possibilities
In a society that grants individuals the freedom to pursue their desires as long as it adheres to the law, a peculiar challenge arises. With infinite possibilities, human beings can become paralyzed by choice, leading to a loss of their capacity to desire. This phenomenon, known as choice paralysis, can be observed in various aspects of life, such as the struggle to make simple decisions like choosing cereal at the grocery store. The secular world's conflation of will and desire has rendered it difficult for individuals to know what they truly want. As a result, addiction often arises as an attempt to escape the loneliness and confusion caused by a will disconnected from truth and reality. To counteract this, loving Jesus and knowing God can awaken godly desires within individuals, enabling them to lean into the desires that align with God's intentions.
Dr. A.J. Swoboda (Ph.D., Birmingham) is an associate professor of Bible and Theology at Bushnell University and lead mentor for the Doctor of Ministry Program on Spiritual Formation and Soul Care at Friends University. He is the author of many books, including The Gift of Thorns (Zondervan), After Doubt (Brazos), and the award-winning Subversive Sabbath (Brazos). He lives and works on an urban farm with his wife and son in Eugene, Oregon.
In this podcast conversation, we talk about the content of his forthcoming book The Gift of Thorns. We discuss the nature of desire, how our desires play into discipleship, how saying "no" to our wants actually increases our joy, the therapeutic benefit of communal confession of sin, the pleasure of self-denial, why we need more slow thinking/writing on tough topics, and how we can become incapacitated over all the books and articles and "things" we feel like we need to know.