The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens
Daniel Schmachtenberger: "Moving from Naive to Authentic Progress: A Vision for Betterment”
Episode guests
Podcast summary created with Snipd AI
Quick takeaways
- Progress narratives shape societal values and often favor winners, neglecting broader impacts.
- Corporate pursuit of profit can lead to sociopathic behavior, prioritizing self-interest over well-being.
- Structural challenges like multipolar traps hinder collective action on global issues like AI development and climate change.
- Excessive focus on technological advancements without ethical considerations leads to environmental degradation and societal harm.
- Reevaluating progress requires a shift towards sustainable practices and ethical decision-making.
- Cultural shifts towards holistic well-being are essential for authentic progress and values transformation.
Deep dives
The Concept of Progress and Externalities
Progress is often defined by achieving narrowly defined goals while ignoring the externalities, leading to a biased progress narrative favoring winners. Understanding the impact of progress on society and the environment is crucial, as progress narratives shape individual and collective orientations.
The Role of Technology in Unintended Consequences
The development of new technologies often leads to unintended consequences and externalities, such as PFAS contamination from industrial processes despite awareness of its harmful effects. The focus on maximizing profit and market dominance overshadows consideration of broader societal impacts.
Corporate Sociopathy and Legal Structures
Corporations, driven by the fiduciary responsibility to maximize profit, exhibit sociopathic traits that prioritize self-interest over social and environmental well-being. The legal framework of corporate personhood shields directors from accountability for detrimental effects, perpetuating a system that values profit over sustainability.
Challenges in Anticipating Externalities and Addressing Multipolar Traps
While there are efforts to anticipate externalities through processes like yellow teaming, structural issues like multipolar traps and arms races hinder collective action in addressing global challenges like AI development or climate change. The narrative of individual powerlessness in creating change perpetuates a cycle of unsustainable practices.
Implications of AI Development and Geopolitics
The episode explores the interconnectedness between AI development and geopolitics, emphasizing the notion of being a 'winner' in various fields. The discussion delves into the potential negative outcomes of pursuing winning at all costs, highlighting a self-terminating aspect. The conversation also addresses the rise of carcinogenic chemicals and its correlation with the increase in cancer incidents, pointing out the need to address environmental factors contributing to health issues.
Impact of Carcinogenic Chemicals on Health
The podcast underscores the prevalence of carcinogenic chemicals in the environment and their detrimental effects on human health. It analyzes the connection between the rise in cancer rates, incidences of neurodegenerative diseases, and infertility with the increased exposure to harmful chemicals like carcinogens, neurotoxins, and endocrine disruptors. The discussion advocates for addressing the root cause by reducing the presence of such chemicals in the environment.
Negative Consequences of Technological Advancements
The episode examines the downside of technological progress, questioning the focus on profit-driven advancements without considering the broader impacts. It critiques the narrative of progress that overlooks environmental degradation, species extinction, and societal harm caused by industrial development. The conversation highlights the role of technology in altering values, behaviors, and societies, leading to exploitative practices and resource depletion.
Critique of Progress Narrative and Need for Ethical Consideration
The podcast challenges the prevailing notion of progress, emphasizing the importance of ethical considerations in technological advancements. It critiques the selective portrayal of advancements without acknowledging the negative consequences on the environment and society. The discussion calls for a reevaluation of what constitutes authentic progress, advocating for a shift towards sustainable practices and ethical decision-making to ensure the well-being of the planet and future generations.
Reevaluating Progress Narratives
The discussion delves into reevaluating progress narratives by examining the example of Western Price's work with indigenous tribes. It highlights how the introduction of a heavy grain diet led to dental problems like cavities and occlusion issues, contrasting with the tooth health of those not consuming grains. This prompts a reflection on the impacts of dietary changes on health outcomes.
Cultural Shifts and Authentic Progress
The conversation transitions into the necessity of cultural shifts towards authentic progress, emphasizing the need for a change in values and consciousness at a societal level. It explores the concept that optimism and pessimism are rooted in faith and despair, suggesting a cultural transformation to instill values oriented towards holistic well-being and thoughtful progress.
Technology, Externalities, and Problem-Solving Approaches
The episode further delves into the implications of advancing technologies and their associated externalities. It discusses the concept of problem-solving by evaluating whether issues require technological solutions or reflect inherent aspects of life. The focus shifts towards understanding the causes of problems and designing solutions that mitigate externalized negative effects, advocating for mindful decision-making and systemic awareness in problem-solving processes.
(Conversation recorded on May 5th, 2024)
Show Summary:In this episode, Nate welcomes back Daniel Schmachtenberger to unpack a new paper, which he co-authored, entitled Development in Progress, an analysis on the history of progress and the consequences of ‘advancement’.
Current mainstream narratives sell the story that progress is synonymous with betterment, and that the world becomes better for everyone as GDP and economies continue to grow. Yet, this is an incomplete portrayal that leaves out the dark sides of advancement. What are the implications when only the victors of history write the narratives of progress and define societal values? What are the value systems embedded in our institutions and policies, and how do they reinforce the need for ongoing growth at the expense of the natural world and human well-being? Finally, how do we change these dynamics to form a new, holistic definition of progress that accounts for the connectedness of our planet to the health of our minds, bodies, and communities?
Consilience Project paper on 'Development in Progress'
About Daniel Schmachtenberger:
Daniel Schmachtenberger is a founding member of The Consilience Project, aimed at improving public sensemaking and dialogue.
The throughline of his interests has to do with ways of improving the health and development of individuals and society, with a virtuous relationship between the two as a goal.
Towards these ends, he’s had a particular interest in catastrophic and existential risk, with focuses on civilization collapse and institutional decay. His work also includes an analysis of progress narratives, collective action problems, and social organization theories. These themes are all connected through close study of the relevant domains in philosophy and science.
For Show Notes and More visit:
thegreatsimplification.com/episode/daniel-schmachtenberger-7
To watch this video episode on Youtube → https://youtu.be/tmusbHBKW84
0:00 - Introduction
0:46 - Guest Introduction: Daniel Schmachtenberger
2:24 - Personal Catch-Up and Observations
3:55 - Paper on Development and Progress
6:19 - Definition and Importance of Progress
11:03 - Critique of Technological Advancement
14:05 - Historical Context of Progress Narratives
18:53 - Social Structures and Restraint
21:21 - Technological Efficiency and Wisdom
27:41 - Climate Change and Technological Solutions
30:32 - Historical Analysis of Conquerors
35:30 - Multipolar Traps and Progress
45:01 - Asymmetry and Power in Evolution
46:29 - Definitions of Progress
47:15 - Ecological and Economic Risks
52:54 - Case Studies of Externalities
56:14 - Corporate Personhood and Sociopathy
1:02:22 - Influence of Dominant Narratives
1:09:09 - Global Coordination and AI
1:11:51 - Self-Terminating Path of Winning
1:13:45 - Addressing Systemic Ecological Issues
1:20:17 - Human Wisdom and Restraint
1:23:27 - Jevons Paradox and Energy Efficiency
1:30:07 - Historical Analysis of Warfare
1:35:30 - Cancer and Industrial Toxins
1:39:03 - Influence of Dark Triad Traits
1:45:01 - Environmental Impact of Corporations
1:52:54 - Long-Term Ecological Solutions
2:00:27 - Role of Education in Progress
2:07:02 - Ethical Considerations in Technology
2:13:45 - Philosophical Foundations of Progress
2:20:17 - Addressing Social Inequality
2:23:27 - Integrating Traditional Knowledge
2:30:07 - Future Prospects and Challenges
2:35:30 - Personal Reflections and Closing Thoughts
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