How Government Can Get Sh*t Done: Jennifer Pahlka on Modernizing Technology and Reforming Civil Service

Mar 20, 2025

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Faith in our government and elected officials has reached record lows in recent years. In 2023, trust in government institutions plummeted to 16%, marking one of the lowest points in history, and, in 2024, 49% of Americans – a plurality of respondents – asserted that the very foundation of our government, our democracy, was not working. This episode kicks off our limited series How Government Can Get Sh*t Done. In this series, hosts Debbie Cox Bultan and Ryan Coonerty will be joined by political scientists, policy experts, authors, and elected officials as they explore how to make government more effective and responsive, delivering tangible results that improve lives.

For today’s conversation, Debbie speaks with Jennifer Pahlka, who has decades of experience in civic technology. She was U.S. Deputy Chief Technology Officer under former President Obama and recently authored the book, Recoding America: Why Government is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better. Debbie and Jennifer talk about the factors that often make government slow or ineffective and what the Department of Government Efficiency is getting wrong about cutting waste, fraud, and abuse. Jennifer shares her advice for elected officials from prioritizing civil service reform to investing in digital and data infrastructure and the importance of measuring results. Tune in to hear how Democrats can go on offense against DOGE by championing thoughtful and lawful systemic improvements.

IN THIS EPISODE:

• [01:05] Introducing An Honorable Profession’s new series: How Government Can Get Sh*t Done.

• [02:17] Welcome to Jennifer Pahlka who served as US Deputy Chief Technology Officer under President Obama.

• [04:53] How to not lose sight of the real problems that need evolving.

• [09:40] Why efficiency is a byproduct of government rather than a goal.

• [11:17] Differentiating between creating regulations and making government work.

• [16:24] Four things government officials can do to facilitate interaction.

• [18:12] How LLMs can support efficiency.

• [21:56] What it might look like to care more about the outcome than the bill.

• [25:41] How to know the true status of your bureaucracy.

• [28:10] Understanding why bureaucracy is risk adverse.

• [30:28] Jennifer’s journey to public service.

• [32:20] How tech can build a better world for those who most need it.