EP 38 — How to Fix DeFi with Andre Cronje

From regulatory battles that forced him out of DeFi, to the conviction that drew him back, Andre opens up about the unseen cost of innovation in a space that now rewards safety over experimentation.

This isn’t a retrospective of Yearn or a breakdown of his past projects. It’s a look at why composability collapsed, how decentralisation became a UX burden, and why most builders today are creating walled gardens instead of primitives.

We explore:

• The psychological and legal toll of building in public

• Why upgradability killed trust and composability in DeFi

• Ethereum’s missed opportunity: 2% utilisation and a path to 8x throughput

• The paradox of building secure, decentralised systems for users who don’t want to deal with either

• Why Andre thinks you shouldn’t build in crypto and what to do if you still want to

This episode isn’t about nostalgia. It’s about reckoning with the systems we’ve created, and the incentives we’ve chosen.

If you’ve ever asked yourself whether it’s still worth building in this space, this is the episode to watch.Timestamps — 00:00 Introduction 

01:34 Navigating Regulatory Challenges in Crypto

03:09 Legal Battles and SEC Interactions

09:23 The Shift in Market Participants and Decentralization

13:59 Innovation Stagnation in DeFi

18:00 Balancing User Experience and Decentralization

34:00 Scalability and the Limitations of Ethereum

41:17 Innovations in DeFi Primitives

44:10 Advice for Builders

👥 Guest: Andre Cronje – CTO, Sonic Labs

Twitter: https://x.com/andrecronjetech

🎙️ Host: Saurabh Deshpande – DCo Podcast

Twitter: https://x.com/desh_saurabh

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