Why would anybody buy a CNC multi-spindle for $2 million? Or $3 million for that matter?

My guest on today’s podcast, Richard Kingsbury, has the answer. Richard is Managing Director of the Kingsbury Engineering Division, England’s INDEX distributor.

In this interview, Richard gives a history lesson of screw machining. We discuss how you sell a $2 million dollar CNC multi-spindle. Most importantly, we talk about how a machining company can make lots of money with these Ferraris of multi-spindles. I know, I should call them Porsches as they’re made in Germany.

In any case, INDEXs are so choice!

If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.

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Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion!

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Interview Highlights

Kingsbury’s Origins

In 1945, a bankrupt Germany was forced to pay reparations to the allies in the form of intellectual property and capital equipment. INDEX’s products and designs were assigned to BSA Tools, a British company, with rights to sell these machines for 10 years (1945-1955)

During this period, George Kingsbury (Richard’s grandfather) ran a subcontract shop that used both BSA-built INDEX machines and original INDEX machines. He quickly recognized that the original INDEX products were of superior quality. Sensing an opportunity, he developed a plan to become Index’s distributor when BSA’s rights expired in 1955.

To demonstrate his commitment to INDEX, George sent his son (Richard’s father) to work at INDEX in Germany for nine months. When INDEX’s sales director visited the UK, George showcased his facility and then made a bold proposition over lunch: if INDEX would grant him exclusive distributorship rights for the UK and Ireland, he would immediately place a purchase order for 30 cam automatic machines, with 120 days to pay. The sales director couldn’t resist such a proposition, and the deal was struck. George returned to his office to inform his two sons that they had 120 days to sell 30 cam automatics. It was the beginning of Kingsbury’s relationship with INDEX, which continues nearly 70 years later as the second-longest-running Index dealership in the world, after only Japan.

Today, Kingsbury has evolved into a diversified enterprise with three divisions: engineering (machine tools), timber, and property, employing 350 people and generating approximately $140 million in annual revenue.

Why INDEX CNC Multi-Spindles Make Sense Over Other Machine Tools

In our interview Richard made a great analysis of cam-driven multi-spindles like Wickmans verses modern CNC multi-spindles. He explained that while Wickman machines were excellent for high-volume commercial parts, they required highly skilled operators who could fine-tune them with copper hammers—a dying breed in today’s workforce. In contrast, INDEX’s CNC multi-spindles represent a technological leap forward, with each spindle independently driven and controlled.

One of INDEX’s key innovations is their patented drum indexing system. Rather than continuously rotating in one direction (which would tangle the wiring), the drum advances five positions forward and then reverses for the sixth position. This solution allows for precise synchronization between operations and eliminates the need for slip rings used by competitors.

The benefits of modern CNC multi-spindles are substantial. Richard demonstrated this with a complex stainless steel part that previously took 4.5 minutes to produce on a twin-spindle machine but now takes just 20 seconds on an INDEX multi-spindle. This dramatic improvement in cycle time helps justify the significant investment these machines require. As Richard puts it, “You’re taking a gun to a knife fight” when competing against shops running conventional machines like CNC Swiss or single-spindle lathes.

While I agree with the Richard’s view that cam multi-spindles have fewer people qualified to run them nowadays, from my viewpoint as a used machinery dealer selling Acmes, Wickmans, and Davenports all over the world every year, I don’t see cam multi-spindles as completely obsolete in today’s world market. I know companies around the world, including in the U.S. making big money with cam multi-spindles that cost as little as $30,000. Many of those companies have a young workforce with the talent to run the older technology.

Sales Approach Selling INDEX Multi-Spindles?

When asked about his sales approach, Richard revealed that Kingsbury’s sales team has moved away from traditional feature-and-benefit selling toward a consultative method inspired by Sandler training. Rather than leading with technical specifications or price, they focus on understanding the customer’s problems and business goals. Their most successful sales are to entrepreneurial owner-managed companies that can make quick decisions, rather than corporations requiring extensive approval processes.

A particularly interesting insight came from Kingsbury’s discussion of their selective approach to sales opportunities. Rather than pursuing every lead, they carefully qualify prospects through detailed conversations about their needs and motivations. As he explained, “If somebody asks us for our opinion, we’ll give it to them. We’ll try and understand their business. And if we think we can help, we will. And if we don’t, we will say we can’t.”

The interview concluded with Richard emphasizing the importance of building genuine business relationships rather than being seen as “sniffy salesmen.” His approach focuses on becoming a trusted advisor who understands and addresses real business challenges rather than simply pushing products.

Question: How have you made money using CNC multi-spindles?

This blog was aided by claude.ai