Conversing with Mark Labberton Educational Injustice, with Terence Lester
Adverse childhood experiences are notoriously hard to overcome, and they can affect a person well into adulthood. But the grace of close, stable, nurturing relationships can offer hope.
Terence Lester—author of From Dropout to Doctorate and founder of Love Beyond Walls—joins Mark Labberton for a conversation about resilience, faith, and the redemptive power of seeing and being seen. Lester recounts his life's journey from poverty, homelessness, and gang membership in southwest Atlanta to earning his PhD in public policy and social change. Together, they explore the impact of childhood trauma on personal development; education as a form of love, justice, and community service; and the healing potential of local community and proximity. Lester's story is a testament to divine grace, human courage, and the transformative impact of compassionate words and faithful presence.
Episode Highlights
- "The higher your ACE score, the more your body has to overcome… Every 'yes' cultivates a stronger relationship with pain. Your counterparts with lower scores may never develop those same muscles of resilience."
- "Education is a tool that increases your capacity to serve others."
- "People don't become what you want them to become—they become what you encourage them to become."
- "I am a product of people who invested in me and of the things I've had to resist."
- "You can't love your neighbour if you're not concerned about the neighbourhood that produces your neighbour."
- "Each sentence spoken can become a seed of hope—or a curse that crushes it."
Helpful Links and Resources
- Terence Lester's website – https://terencelester.com/
- From Dropout to Doctorate – https://www.ivpress.com/from-dropout-to-doctorate
- I See You: How Love Opens Our Eyes to Invisible People – https://www.ivpress.com/i-see-you
- Love Beyond Walls (Terence Lester's non-profit) – https://www.lovebeyondwalls.org
- ACEs Study (Adverse Childhood Experiences) – https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/index.html
- The Color of Compromise by Jamar Tisby – https://jemartisby.com/the-color-of-compromise/
About Terence Lester
Terence Lester is a speaker, activist, author, and founder of Love Beyond Walls, a non-profit organization dedicated to raising awareness about poverty and homelessness while mobilizing communities to serve those in need. A graduate of Union Institute & University with a PhD in public policy and social change, he is the author of I See You: How Love Opens Our Eyes to Invisible People, When We Stand: The Power of Seeking Justice Together, **and All God's Children: How Confronting Buried History Can Build Racial Solidarity. His latest book is From Dropout to Doctorate: Breaking the Chains of Educational Injustice. Through storytelling, advocacy, and faith-rooted organizing, Lester seeks to dismantle systemic barriers and call communities toward justice, empathy, and proximity.
Show Notes
- Education and social change
- Terence Lester describes sitting beside his father's hospital bed reflecting on vulnerability, legacy, and resilience.
- His father's words—"I'm proud of you"—affirmed the journey from poverty to doctorate.
- Growing up amid trauma, gangs, and homelessness in southwest Atlanta.
- The generational impact of systemic injustice and public policy shaping social outcomes
- Education as a tool for empowerment and community transformation, not self-advancement
- "Education is a tool that increases your capacity to serve others."
- How the post–Civil Rights era shaped identity and pride in blackness while still marked by inequality
- Frames poverty itself as a form of trauma, calling for empathy and systemic response
- Trauma, resilience, and the ACEs framework
- Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) test as a tool for understanding trauma
- Lester shares his 10/10 ACE score—complete exposure to childhood trauma
- "Every 'yes' cultivates a stronger relationship with pain… You must climb out of a pit to reach emotionally stable ground."
- How adversity produced resilience, not fragility
- Connecting personal trauma to compassion in ministry among the unhoused
- How proximity to suffering forms the capacity for empathy and love
- Faith, identity, and calling
- Connecting resilience and faith: "I believe my being was intricately woven together by God."
- Psalm 139 and seeing himself as "fearfully and wonderfully made"
- Jesus's life as a model of proximity and compassionate visibility—"Jesus saw."
- The church as a community of affirmation and blessing
- How words spoken over others—curses or encouragement—shape identity
- "People don't become what you want them to become—they become what you encourage them to become."
- Community, visibility, and flourishing
- "You can't love your neighbor if you're not concerned about the neighborhood that produces your neighbor."
- Warns of a "compassion deficit" and urges the rebuilding of community communication
- Seeds and environments: people cannot flourish where conditions are hostile
- The need for better care for impoverished environments that stunt potential
- Community as the soil of hope—"People find hope and possibility in community."
- Lester's mother's resilience and faith—earning her own doctorate while raising two children
- "I am a product of her never giving up."
- The generational power of education and faith as liberation
- Hope, words, and the power of blessing
- Transformative and timely sentences: encouraging words of seeds or yeast—small yet life-altering
- How to speak life, not curses, over others
- "Each sentence spoken can become a seed of hope—or a curse that crushes it."
- Mentorship, community affirmation, and divine proximity as instruments of healing
- Interrogating falsehoods: "God is not the source of cursing."
- A call to faith-rooted compassion, proximity, and collective responsibility.
Production Credits
Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment magazine and Fuller Seminary.