Lev Grossman, acclaimed novelist behind The Magicians trilogy and The Bright Sword, joins the host for an engaging conversation about world-building and mythology. They dive into the complexities of the Arthurian legends and the interplay between magic, religion, and modern narratives. Grossman shares insights on the importance of historical context and authentic storytelling. They also discuss his upcoming space opera and how it aims to transcend traditional fantasy tropes, creating a rich, multi-layered universe.
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Quick takeaways
Lev Grossman highlights how reinterpretations of the King Arthur legend reflect contemporary societal values and challenges, particularly regarding leadership and trust in institutions.
The podcast emphasizes the importance of complexity in world-building, showcasing how magic intertwines with relatable human experiences in fantasy literature.
Deep dives
Exploration of Arthurian Themes
The podcast delves into the enduring relevance of the King Arthur legend by examining its transformative qualities across eras. Lev Grossman discusses how different interpretations of Arthur reflect societal values and challenges, emphasizing that the narrative reshapes itself in response to contemporary issues. For instance, he explores how Arthur's death is typically viewed as a tragedy, yet he proposes that the aftermath of his demise can reveal deeper insights about leadership and governance in a fractured realm. This modern lens on Arthur reflects current anxieties regarding trust in institutions and the search for stability in society.
The Role of Magic and Religion
Grossman articulates the nuanced relationship between magic and religion within the Arthurian context, particularly after Arthur's death. He notes how the divine presence, once so prominent in the Arthurian tales, begins to fade, correlating with a loss of faith in traditional institutions. This withdrawal of the divine upon the quest for the Holy Grail leads to a world where magic still exists, yet lacks the guiding principles that once directed its use. By highlighting this dichotomy, Grossman draws parallels between the mythological narrative and the challenges faced in contemporary belief systems.
Cultural Layering in Arthurian Myth
The conversation explores the layers of cultural narratives that coalesce in the Arthurian mythos, affirming that the tale is not just a singular story but a complex tapestry incorporating various historical influences. Grossman points out that the Arthurian legend exists within a post-colonial narrative where different peoples and belief systems intersect, creating a more mixed cultural identity. He critiques the notion of a 'pure' Arthurian Britain, recognizing that the myth can represent a diversity of experiences and narratives. This layered approach resonates with contemporary discussions about race, identity, and the right to national narratives.
Nuanced Worlds in Fantasy Storytelling
The podcast touches on the importance of complexity in world-building within fantasy literature, emphasizing the interplay of magic and storytelling. Grossman discusses how the appeal of fantasy lies not just in its fantastical elements but in the relatable human experiences tethered to these worlds. He compares magic in his works to more traditional models, revealing that through relationships and interactions with supernatural entities, characters grapple with deeper meanings and personal stakes. This approach serves as a conduit for readers to examine their own lives while navigating the ambiguity and richness of the fantasy narrative.
Welcome to The Orthogonal Bet, an ongoing mini-series that explores the unconventional ideas and delightful patterns that shape our world. Hosted by Samuel Arbesman.
In this episode, the Sam speaks with novelist Lev Grossman. A longtime fan of Lev’s novels, the host delves into his works, including The Magicians trilogy—a splendid set of books about a university for magic, fantastical worlds, and much more. These books are amazing. Lev’s newest book is the novel The Bright Sword, a retelling of the legends of King Arthur, particularly focusing on what happens after Arthur dies.
The Sam devoured The Bright Sword and found it fascinating. It’s a book that weaves together ideas about gods and magic, the layering of myths across history, and much more—all topics explored in the conversation with Lev.
Lev and Sam discuss the story of King Arthur, its gaps and its history, the layering of gods and stories over time, the nature of magic and religion, the importance of secondary worlds, and the magic in The Magicians versus the magic of The Bright Sword. They even have a chance to discuss Lev’s next project, which is a space opera. This episode was a lot of fun.