Ep271: Zen Confessions - Brad Warner & Shozan Jack Haubner
Sep 13, 2024
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Brad Warner is a Zen teacher and best-selling author known for his candid insights on Zen practice. Shozan Jack Haubner, an ex-Zen monk and prize-winning author, adds layers with his humorous memoir. They share their journeys through writing, tackling the nuances of portraying real-life experiences and the complexities of American Zen. Topics include the commercialization of meditation and the balance of authority in teaching. Their conversation delves into online criticism, social justice, and maintaining authenticity in a polarized world.
Brad Warner and Shozan Jack Haubner emphasize radical self-disclosure in their writing, blending personal vulnerability with Zen wisdom to encourage authentic narratives.
Both authors address the ethical complexities of writing about real-life experiences, highlighting the tension between candidness and the potential impact on others' reputations.
The discussion reveals concerns regarding the politicization of Zen in America, advocating for a return to essential teachings while resisting the merging of spirituality with political ideologies.
Deep dives
Exploration of Radical Self-Disclosure in Writing
The episode delves into how radical self-disclosure influences the writing styles of Brad Warner and Shozan Jack Haubner. Both writers embrace a candid and confessional tone, sharing personal experiences that reveal both their vulnerabilities and insights gained from their Zen practices. For instance, Warner shares how writing Hardcore Zen originated from a desire to inform his nephew about Zen, breaking conventional expectations of Buddhist literature. This thoughtful approach encourages readers to see the authenticity in their narratives, despite potential risks to their reputations as Zen figures.
Challenges of Writing About Real-Life Events
Warner and Haubner discuss the complexities of writing about real-life events and the people involved, focusing on both the ethical considerations and potential backlash. They acknowledge that personal revelations in their writings could inadvertently affect the reputations of those they depict, leading to the need for discretion. Haubner reflects on his decision to use a pseudonym while writing personal essays as a means of protecting both himself and others mentioned. Such choices amplify the struggle between authenticity and protection within the artistic process.
Criticism and Facing Backlash as Public Figures
The speakers share their strategies for handling criticism in the age of social media and the polarized responses that often accompany their views. Both assert the importance of remaining grounded in their Zen practice while navigating public scrutiny, with Haubner suggesting that he curates responses with sincerity rather than engaging in fruitless debates online. They recognize that not every reaction warrants a response, and handling negativity with a sense of humor can be an effective way to deflect hostility. This approach fosters a resilient mindset essential for maintaining their centeredness amidst external pressures.
The Politicization of Zen Practice
Warner and Haubner reflect on how Zen practice in America has become politicized and influenced by broader sociopolitical trends. They express concern over how the essence of Zen may be diluted by merging it with modern ideological movements, which they feel detracts from the fundamental teachings of Buddhism. Their discussions highlight the tension between engaging in socially relevant conversations and preserving the purity of Zen practice. They advocate for a return to essential Zen teachings amidst current cultural dialogues, emphasizing the need to keep spiritual practices distinct from political agendas.
The Financial Pressures on Zen Institutions
The episode addresses the financial pressures that Zen institutions face and how these pressures can lead to compromises in practice and teachings. Warner and Haubner articulate that institutions often feel compelled to cater to patrons and donors, which can stifle authentic expression and challenge within the community. They share personal anecdotes of their experiences in leading Zen centers, warning of the dangers when financial stability becomes a priority over genuine practice. This dynamic illuminates a broader concern about the evolution of spiritual organizations in modern society.
Maintaining Equilibrium in an Online Environment
Both speakers share thoughts on how they navigate the challenges posed by online platforms, particularly the pressure to conform to popular trends for visibility. They emphasize the importance of remaining true to their values and maintaining content that reflects their genuine interests rather than chasing algorithm-driven attention. Warner notes that he often finds more engagement with videos that emerge from offhand remarks rather than prepared content, highlighting the unpredictable nature of the internet. Ultimately, they advocate for creating thoughtful, meaningful content that resonates with their audience while staying grounded in their Zen practice.
In this episode, I host a dialogue between Brad Warner, Zen teacher, Youtuber, and best-selling author of “Hardcore Zen”; and Shozan Jack Haubner, ex-Zen Monk, Youtuber, and prize winning author of the memoir “Zen Confidential: Confessions of a Wayward Monk”.
Brad and Jack explore their own journeys as writers, the humorous and confessional elements in their work, and the complications of writing about real life events that involve other people.
Brad and Jack reflect on what they see as the politicisation of American Zen, describe how religious institutions can compromise their principles when faced with financial and political pressure, and explain their own efforts on Youtube and elsewhere to challenge hegemony and encourage a return to essential Zen.
Brad and Jack also discuss facing criticism as public figures, consider some of their more controversial videos and views, and reveal how they stay centred amidst the polarising forces of today’s internet and social media world.
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Video version: https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep271-zen-confessions-brad-warner-shozan-jack-haubner
Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
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Topics include:
00:00 - Intro
01:10 - Radical self disclosure
02:49 - Why Brad began writing about Zen
05:59 - Hardcore Zen and success
06:48 - Noah Levine’s Dharma Punx
07:50 - Jack’s initial Zen writing
10:43 - Complications of being ordained
12:34 - When people find out
13:40 - Protecting others’ identity
16:29 - Compromise thru affiliation with Zen organisations
18:08 - Selling meditation as a product
21:03 - Austrian Zen and hard retreat
22:44 - Mainstream mindfulness
23:37 - Wearing Zen robes
24:55 - Why Brad stopped teaching in the USA
25:45 - Hostility in NYC
27:50 - Zen apprenticeship and closing the doors
30:53 - Boomer hippy ideals vs real Zen
31:45 - US Zen hegemony
35:11 - Politicised Zen and 80s televangelists
36:20 - Bullying and fixed views
37:25 - Sasaki Roshi’s scandal and encounters with boutique Zen teachers
39:02 - Politicisation of US Zen
41:07 - Financial pressure and running an institution
44:59 - Brad on Sasaki Roshi
47:16 - Sweeping Zen
48:08 - Challenging socio-political trends in American Zen
50:08 - Hijacking Zen
56:06 - The Jack Kornfield problem
59:20 - Attacked from both sides
01:01:16 - Right wing Zen
01:03:54 - Demonising the other side and facing your shadow
01:09:40 - Abuse and pushing your buttons
01:12:10 - Being too nice
01:13:28 - Self-justification
01:14:57 - Co-opting Zen
01:16:09 - Sasaki beats a lazy student
01:19:06 - The danger of Zen practice
01:23:06 - Patron priest corruption
01:24:58 - Dealing with negative feedback on social media
01:33:24 - Internet radicalisation and keeping your head
01:38:52 - Watching your equilibrium
01:39:49 - Jordan Peterson vs Zen
01:43:07 - Teachings vs entertainment
01:46:00 - Why Rinzai is evil and Soto sucks
Previous episode with Brad Warner:
- www.guruviking.com/podcast/155-hardcore-zen-brad-warner
Previous episodes with Shozan Jack Haubner:
- https://www.guruviking.com/search?q=haubner
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To find out more about Brad Warner, visit:
- http://hardcorezen.info/
- https://www.youtube.com/c/HardcoreZen
To find our more about Shozan Jack Haubner, visit:
- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt9Q74t3o7AUCJ_bKTc5CgA
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For more interviews, videos, and more visit:
- https://www.guruviking.com
Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James
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