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CNLP 782 | The Problem of Mini-Celebrity Pastors: Les McKeown on Growth Barriers for Church Leaders

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Jan 29, 2026

Guest

Les McKeown

Les McKeown, founder and CEO of Predictable Success and author on organizational growth, tackles the rise of mini-celebrity pastors and how founder-centric leadership limits church scaling. He explores lifecycle stages, the whitewater complexity point, why leaders must move from doing to team-building, and practical steps to disentangle personal brand from organizational health.

01:40:27

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insights

INSIGHT

Mini-Celebrity Helps Early Growth, Hinders Scale

Mini-celebrity leaders accelerate early growth but create scalability limits as complexity rises.
A founder's identity fused with the organization must separate to move beyond a boutique model.

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ADVICE

Decide To Systematize For Scale

To reach predictable success, decide to build systems and processes rather than endlessly relying on individual effort.
Move from ad-hoc heroics to repeatable operations that enable scalable growth.

insights

INSIGHT

Fun Leadership Won't Survive Complexity

Leadership that worked in Fun often fails in Whitewater because complexity demands distributed decision-making.
The critical shift is building a leadership team that truly decides and fixes issues.

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Defining the 'mini-celebrity' pastor problem

04:55 • 5min

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When founder identity must separate from the church

10:24 • 4min

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Predictable Success model overview

Early struggle and the 'fun' stage

16:42 • 4min

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Whitewater: complexity forces change

21:01 • 2min

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Reaching Predictable Success

23:12 • 26sec

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Decline stages and reversal risks

Why leadership style must change

36:01 • 10min

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How healthy leadership teams behave

45:54 • 6min

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The 'mini-celebrity' effect on team development

51:56 • 2min

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Practical steps to disentangle founder and church

54:22 • 3min

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From doing to mentoring and coaching

57:26 • 5min

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Depersonify the vision; serve the church

01:02:26 • 8min

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Start with org roles and job descriptions

01:10:47 • 10min

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Sizing complexity: staff matters more than attendance

01:20:21 • 3min

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The danger of invoking 'God told me'

01:23:50 • 7min

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Ownership, discretionary effort, and growth

01:30:44 • 4min

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Succession and stepping away rightly

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Successful Habits of Visionary Companies

Jerry I. Porras

James C. Collins

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Jim Collins and Jerry Porras's "Built to Last" examines the characteristics of visionary companies, those that have sustained exceptional performance over long periods. The authors identify key principles that contribute to long-term success, including a strong core ideology, a focus on innovation, and a commitment to continuous improvement. They analyze a range of companies across various industries, identifying common patterns and best practices. The book provides valuable insights for leaders seeking to build enduring and successful organizations. "Built to Last" has become a classic in the field of business strategy.

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Getting Your Organization on the Growth Track-- And Keeping It There

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Predictable Success takes readers through a step-by-step process to bring sustained success to their organizations. The book outlines seven stages of organizational development: Early Struggle, Fun, Whitewater, Predictable Success, Treadmill, The Big Rut, and Death Rattle. It emphasizes key characteristics such as decision-making, goal-setting, alignment, accountability, and ownership to achieve and maintain Predictable Success. The book is based on Les McKeown's extensive experience as a serial entrepreneur and advisor to various organizations.

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Why Some Companies Make the Leap... and Others Don't

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The book challenges the common perception that millionaires live in affluent neighborhoods and instead shows that many wealthy individuals live modestly in middle-class and blue-collar areas. The authors identify seven common traits among these millionaires, including being dedicated to a vision, making appropriate career decisions, valuing financial security over social standing, and efficiently spending time and money. The book also distinguishes between 'Under Accumulators of Wealth' (UAWs) and 'Prodigious Accumulators of Wealth' (PAWs), emphasizing the differences in their spending and saving habits.

Leadership expert Les McKeown talks about the rise of mini-celebrity pastors, the limits that places on church growth and team development, and how to overcome the growth barriers you're facing as church leaders.

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