S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Mar 21, 2025
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Michael Lewis, renowned author of bestsellers like 'Moneyball,' joins historian Sarah Vowell for a compelling discussion. They debunk the myth of the 'deep state,' highlighting how dedicated government workers often work without recognition. Lewis shares insights from his latest essays on these unsung heroes, while Vowell reflects on a National Archives record keeper. Together, they emphasize the crucial role of public service and the degradation of trust under political manipulation, calling for a reevaluation of how society views government.
Michael Lewis highlights the often-overlooked dedication of government workers who are mission-driven and committed to public service rather than personal gain.
The troubling case of deported individuals to El Salvador illustrates systemic issues within U.S. immigration policies that lack empathy and accountability.
Ethical concerns arise from Paul Weiss's negotiations with Trump, reflecting dangerous precedents regarding legal integrity and the influence of politics on law firms.
Deep dives
El Salvador Deportations and Misunderstandings
The episode addresses the troubling revelations regarding individuals deported to a notorious prison camp in El Salvador, with claims that some were sent there unjustly due to misinterpretations of their tattoos and a lack of empathy from the government. Lawyers argue that these men were legally present under Venezuelan temporary protected status, highlighting a potential failure of the justice and immigration systems. A deeper investigation might reveal systemic issues related to immigration policies that are framed as being cruel and un-American. The host expresses outrage over these developments, emphasizing the importance of accountability and compassion within the U.S. immigration process.
The Implications of Paul Weiss' Deal with Trump
The episode discusses the controversial decision by the law firm Paul Weiss to negotiate a deal with Donald Trump involving $40 million in pro bono services. This capitulation raises eyebrows regarding the ethical implications of a firm being extorted into a compromise by a political figure. The concern centers on the potential undermining of legal accountability and how such compromises can lead to a dangerous precedent for governance and legal integrity. The conversation suggests that this situation reflects broader issues of loyalty and influence, as firms navigate the political landscape under Trump's administration.
Michael Lewis' Insights on Government and Public Service
Michael Lewis, known for his works like Moneyball, discusses his new book, which features various essays exploring the role of government and public service through compelling stories. By collaborating with talented writers who bring unique perspectives, Lewis aims to highlight the often-overlooked individuals working diligently within the government to solve critical issues. One striking example is Chris Mark, who developed solutions to prevent fatal accidents in coal mines, showcasing how important government intervention can be in ensuring public safety. This narrative reinforces the idea that the government houses dedicated individuals committed to their missions, contrary to widespread stereotypes of inefficiency.
The Importance of the National Archives
Sarah Vowell introduces Pamela Wright, a key figure at the National Archives, who plays a crucial role in digitizing and making historical records accessible to the public. Wright’s background as a rancher informs her commitment to sharing these important files online, ensuring that individuals from all backgrounds can access their own history. The episode emphasizes how the National Archives serves as a reflection of the U.S. government, providing transparency and accountability through documenting and preserving important events. This work is vital for citizens to engage with and understand their own history and the workings of government.
Political Consequences and the Role of Trust
The discussion draws attention to how recent political maneuvers threaten the integrity of institutions like the National Archives and broader governmental trust. The firing of key figures like Colleen Shogan highlights the adverse impact of politically motivated actions on public servants genuinely dedicated to their roles. By undermining these trusted institutions, there is a risk of worsening public skepticism about government efficacy. This scenario illustrates a growing trend where political agendas override the need for responsible governance, ultimately affecting citizens' trust in democratic processes.
Trump loves to complain about the deep state while Elon claims he's rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse with all his mass firings. But DOGE should be looking higher up the food chain to target the graft: for example, the South African immigrant whose car company would not have gotten off the ground without the taxpayer money he still collects. In contrast, government workers are mainly mission-driven and they're not in it for the money. Michael's new collection of essays takes a look at some of the characters who populate our federal workforce, including people performing small miracles without fame and glory. Plus, the risk of Trump politicizing economic data and his plan to destroy whatever trust people still have in the government.
Michael Lewis—and Sarah Vowell, who profiled a record keeper at the National Archives for the new book—join Tim Miller for the weekend pod. show notes
