S16 E27: David Seroy on Alpen Labs & ZK Rollups on Bitcoin

May 26, 2025

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David Seroy works at Alpen Labs: the company which aims to bring an extended suite of financial applications to Bitcoin via ZK (Zero Knowledge) rollups. In this episode, we talk about the ideological divide in Bitcoin between builders & moonbois. Time stamps: Introduction to the Episode (00:00:56) Background on Alpine Labs (00:02:08) The Concept of ZK Rollups (00:05:00) Comparing Alpen Labs with Drivechains (00:08:04) Concerns About Data Usage (00:10:18) Nuances of Data Posting (00:12:41) Opposition to Rollup Data (00:13:47) Filtering Transaction Data (00:14:43) Consensus on Bitcoin Usage (00:17:31) The Complexity of Changing Bitcoin (00:19:39) Historical Context of Data Insertion (00:22:29) Creating Layers on Bitcoin (00:22:43) Scaling Bitcoin Beyond Marketing Drama (00:23:28) Trust Assumptions in Multi-Sig Deployment (00:23:45) Soft Forks for Efficient Financial Services (00:24:16) Benefits of CTV and Check Sig From Stack (00:25:00) Improving Efficiency with New Soft Forks (00:25:56) Challenges of Multiplication in Bitcoin Script (00:27:01) Irony of CTV's Reception (00:27:43) Opposition to Change in Bitcoin (00:28:53) Concerns Over OP_CAT and MEV (00:30:14) Safety of MEV in Bitcoin's Ecosystem (00:31:14) Using OP_CAT in Bitcoin (00:32:22) Starkware’s Grant for Rollup Research (00:33:28) Building on Bitcoin Cash vs. Bitcoin (00:34:52) Bitcoin Price All Time High (00:36:38) Alpen Labs' Development Plans (00:39:07) Bitcoin.com’s Shift to BTC (00:40:10) Differences Between CTV and Alpen Labs (00:41:04) Backers of Alpen Labs (00:43:21) Ethereum People Investing in Alpen (00:44:28) Nic Carter's Fight Experience (00:45:02) Reflections on Fighting Culture & Karate Combat (00:47:00) Personal Athletic Endeavors (00:48:52) Debate on Ethereum's Influence (00:50:15) Nuances of Ethereum and Bitcoin (00:52:51) Rollups and Trust Assumptions (00:54:21) David Seroy’s Stratacast (00:55:19) Need for Niche Bitcoin Podcasts (00:56:23) Bitcoin's Existential Crisis (00:58:17) Stock Portfolio Sacrifices (01:00:01) Bitcoin as a Store of Value vs. Payment (01:00:56) Concerns Over Stablecoins (01:01:06) Legitimacy of Stablecoin Claims (01:03:14) Building Bitcoin-Backed Stablecoins (01:04:36) Bitcoin-backed Stablecoins Demand (01:05:31) Intersection of Stablecoins and Privacy (01:06:34) Potential for Privacy-focused Stablecoins (01:07:29) Changing Adoption Narratives (01:08:35) Synergy Between Stablecoins and Bitcoin Adoption (01:09:48) Ideological Shifts in Bitcoin Use (01:10:51) Alpen Labs and zk Technology (01:12:56) Client-Side Validation Origins (01:15:51) Zero-Knowledge Proofs in Transactions (01:18:31) Bridging Bitcoin to Privacy Protocols (01:20:30) Privacy vs. Market Attention (01:21:00) Legal Implications for Privacy Protocols (01:22:37) Historical Context of Privacy Advocacy (01:25:10 Privacy in Bitcoin (01:27:51) The Future of Privacy Solutions (01:28:07) Understanding zk Technology (01:29:54) Current Rollup Implementations (01:31:20) Interoperability of Rollups (01:32:28) Critique of Lightning Network (01:34:19) Challenges of Lightning Network (01:36:13) Cultural Commentary on Bitcoin's Evolution (01:39:47) Drivechains and Rollups for Miners’ Revenue (01:43:14) Mainstream Bitcoin Events (01:48:10) Alpen Labs and Tokens (01:49:38) The Ethereum Token Dilemma (01:50:22) Token Justification and Practices (01:51:05) Incentive Issues with Tokens (01:52:00) Lightning Network and zk Rollups (01:53:22) Alpen Labs Main Chain Launch (01:55:09) Cultural Resistance to Innovation (01:56:19) Building Without Community Approval (01:58:42) User Experience with zk Rollups (02:01:35) Current Wallet Compatibility (02:04:52) Yield Generation in DeFi (02:06:42) Bringing Ethereum Innovations to Bitcoin (02:09:37) Scaling Bitcoin: Block Size Debate (02:11:11) Historical Perspectives on Block Size (02:12:33) The Shift in Bitcoin Developer Opinions (02:14:13) The Rise of Pragmatism in Bitcoin Development (02:15:06) Challenges with Bitcoin Narratives (02:17:01) The Role of Non-Technical Voices in Bitcoin (02:19:11) Optimism Amidst Bitcoin's Challenges (02:20:25) The Power Dynamics in Bitcoin Development (02:25:12) Closing Thoughts and Future Directions (02:27:48)