Gavin Esler chats with Samir Puri, a former UK diplomat and author of 'Westlessness,' and Dan Drezner, a Tufts University professor specializing in international politics. They dive into the fading dominance of the West, exploring how powers like China, India, and Brazil are reshaping global dynamics. The discussion covers the complexities of East-West relations, the rise of authoritarianism, and the implications for democracy. They also analyze the shifting trade dynamics between major players, including the growing role of emerging economies.
The concept of 'Westlessness' emphasizes the declining influence of the West as rising powers like China, India, and Brazil gain prominence.
The podcast critiques America's foreign policy, highlighting growing skepticism about its interventions and the inward turn of U.S. electoral considerations.
Deep dives
Diminishing Western Influence
The concept of 'Westlessness' highlights the gradual decline in the influence of Western countries, particularly in global perspectives. The author emphasizes that while the West is not collapsing, its relevance is diminishing as non-Western countries begin to shift their focus. This shift is illustrated by changing demographics, as projections show that the proportion of people living in Western countries will decrease significantly over the next few decades. As nations like India and China rise in prominence, their historical associations with the West are increasingly questioned.
Changing Global Dynamics
The discussion addresses how different parts of the world perceive their relationship with the West, noting that many countries no longer view it as central to their existence or aspirations. Various nations, such as India and Indonesia, demonstrate a distinct approach to global engagement, often opting for alliances and partnerships that do not necessarily align with Western ideals. The role of countries like Russia complicates these dynamics further, as its ambiguous position blurs the lines of Western affiliation and influence. This evolving landscape challenges the traditional notions of geopolitical alliances and urges a reassessment of the West's role in international affairs.
The Future of American Dominance
Despite ongoing concerns about American dominance and the consequences of populism, the United States remains a significant force, contributing substantially to the global economy and innovation. However, the podcast discusses the problematic nature of America's foreign policy and the growing skepticism surrounding its interventions in other nations. Voter sentiment in the U.S. indicates that foreign policy may not be at the forefront of electoral considerations, suggesting a potential inward turn. This reality underlines the need for a more nuanced understanding of America’s global role as dynamics shift in favor of other regional powers.
Rethinking Global Governance
The podcast critiques the effectiveness of global governance and the models it promotes, highlighting a decline in trust and optimism towards democratic ideals among various nations. The interplay between democracy and authoritarianism shows distinct challenges, as the podcast notes that many countries look elsewhere for models of governance amid disappointment with Western examples. Even established democracies like the U.S. face scrutiny regarding their reliability and the political instability that can arise from changing leadership. Amidst shifting priorities, the conversation advocates for a reassessment of what global governance could mean in a multipolar world filled with diverse aspirations and rivalries.
The days of Western economic, cultural and military dominance are fading. China’s influence and military assertiveness are growing. Rising economies like Brazil, Indonesia and India are increasing powerful. What will the world look like when the West doesn’t write the rules any more?
Gavin Esler talks to former UK diplomat Samir Puri about his book Westlessness: The Great Global Rebalancing, and with Tufts University Professor of International Politics Dan Drezner about America’s foreign policy crossroads.
• Support This Is Not Drill on Patreon to continue by backing us on Patreon. You’ll get early, ad-free editions, merchandise and more.
Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production