#99 Penn Badgley - My Religious Conflicts With Playing a Killer
Mar 17, 2025
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Penn Badgley, acclaimed for his roles in "You" and "Gossip Girl," opens up about wrestling with morality while portraying dark characters. He discusses the emotional toll of embodying a sociopath and the interplay of faith and artistic expression, drawing from his experiences as a member of the Baháʼí Faith. The conversation traverses the unity of religions, the pursuit of true happiness in Hollywood, and humanity's responsibility to tackle global challenges like climate change. Badgley's journey reflects a transformative view on character, spirituality, and societal perception.
Penn Badgley emphasizes the importance of depicting Joe Goldberg's dark nature responsibly, avoiding glamorization of his violent actions.
He reflects on the nature versus nurture debate, suggesting that understanding trauma is vital to addressing sociopathy in character portrayals.
Badgley critiques modern media's tendency to humanize antagonists without acknowledging their harmful behaviors, stressing the need for moral clarity.
As a Baha'i, Badgley discusses reconciling his faith with acting roles, aiming to respect spirituality while navigating complex character dynamics.
Deep dives
Reflections on Playing Joe Goldberg
Penn Badgley discusses his experience portraying Joe Goldberg for seven years, emphasizing the complexities of the character. He acknowledges the importance of grounding the character amidst Hollywood's glamorization, recognizing Joe as a murderer and manipulator. Badgley explains that while the audience may engage with the character on a surface level, he feels a responsibility to highlight the darker aspects of Joe’s personality. This grounding helps ensure that the audience does not consume the character's actions in a damaging or trivializing manner.
Exploring Psychopathy and Empathy
In navigating the role of a psychopathic character, Badgley reflects on the nature versus nurture debate surrounding mental health. He suggests that understanding trauma and rage is crucial to unpacking the roots of sociopathy and psychopathy, drawing parallels to his own experiences. He emphasizes that while some characters display traits of these psychological profiles, it is essential to recognize they do not represent a clinical portrayal but rather a nuanced creation. Badgley finds value in critically assessing what drives such behaviors, hoping to foster deeper conversations about mental health.
Complexity and Romanticization of Villains
The conversation shifts to how modern media often depicts antagonists as complex products of their environments, potentially leading to an apologetic view of their actions. Badgley critiques the tendency to humanize characters like Joe Goldberg or the Joker, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging their harmful actions rather than romanticizing them. He compares this to Bryan Cranston's portrayal of Walter White, who consistently acknowledges his character's moral failings. Badgley expresses a desire for the narrative around Joe Goldberg to remain clear—he is a murderer, and that should not be forgotten.
Navigating Religious Beliefs in Acting
Badgley, who identifies as a Baha'i, elaborates on the challenges of reconciling his faith with playing a morally ambiguous character. He discusses discomfort with the frequent use of religious references as expletives in scripts and how it conflicts with his beliefs. This tension leads him to explore ways to infuse his character's perspective with a more respectful dialogue about spirituality. He acknowledges the difficulties inherent in embodying a character whose actions contradict his own values and ethics rooted in the Baha'i faith.
Understanding the Baha'i Faith and Spirituality
The dialogue traverses the principles of the Baha'i faith, with Badgley explaining its emphasis on unity and the continual evolution of understanding spiritual truths. He notes that every religion is viewed as part of a progressive revelation designed to cater to humanity's evolving needs. Badgley believes that Baha’is are tasked with cultivating spiritual and moral consciousness, which transcends mere compliance with teachings. This perspective shapes his worldview and underscores the interconnectedness of all humanity and the importance of fostering compassion.
Heaven, Hell, and Spiritual Progress
Badgley outlines the Baha'i understanding of heaven and hell as states of being rather than strict afterlife destinations. He explains that one's spiritual reality—characterized by moral and intellectual progress—reflects their state of heaven or hell while earthly existence acts as preparation for the next life. This view promotes the idea that every individual's growth, choices, and connections contribute to their inherent spiritual journey. The conversation highlights the ongoing nature of enlightenment and the significance of understanding life as a continuous learning process.
The Role of Wealth and Fame in Spiritual Life
Addressing the impact of wealth and fame on spiritual well-being, Badgley shares that living as a Baha'i in the public eye can be challenging. He acknowledges the biblical sentiment that it's difficult for the rich to find spiritual connection and meaning, reflecting on how luxury can detract from one’s spiritual journey. The conversation draws attention to the conflict between material success and spiritual fulfillment, suggesting that without deep self-awareness, one may struggle to find true happiness. Badgley sees the pursuit of goodness and service as integral to cultivating a meaningful life.
Penn Badgley is an actor best known for his roles in Netflix’s You and the popular drama series Gossip Girl. He is less known as a podcaster and member of the Baháʼí Faith, a religion which teaches that there is a historical unity between major world religions and their prophets, having itself developed out of a branch of Twelver Shia Islam in the 19th century.
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