OC180 Robb Kelly - His Recovery Story and How to Heal Root Causes of Addiction

Arlina Allen 0:13 Dr. Rob Kelly, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you, Andy for asking. Awesome. Looking forward to this. Hey, before we get started, I saw a picture of you with an English bulldog. Was that yours?

Unknown Speaker 0:25 Yes, I have three English Bulldogs we strive for, but we had to rehome one because of fights. Oh, but I have Mackenzie, Who's the girl and two boys.

Arlina Allen 0:34 And so sweet. So I've had four total but right now I have just one. Yeah, an English bulldog. His name is Teddy. He's the podcast mascot. You will occasionally hear him snoring in the background.

Unknown Speaker 0:47 Always. I've got three in the office today cuz doing other things downstairs. But yeah, I hope they don't balk or anything. Otherwise, we're in trouble. It's

Arlina Allen 0:56 fine. It's fine. This is not CNN. Be good. But my audience is all about sobriety and finding solutions. And you are the solution guy. I saw you on the doctors and did my research and saw on your on your website that you talk about permanent recovery. And that's what everybody wants. Everybody wants these people who've just been through the wringer of people who want to stop and cannot. Those are our people. Right and so I can't wait to hear what you have to say about all that. But like I said, before we jump in we do this something called the lightning round. So I'm just gonna pepper you with it's never usually very fast. But I'm I'm so curious. What were some of your favorite books when you got sober?

Unknown Speaker 1:51 When I got sober? Well, obviously the big book I read often, but I kind of well I wrote about myself. So that's obviously the best ever. But just real life, I love biographies. I love to see how other people live. And now other people have overcome not not a big believer in you know, these get get well or get fit box that are out there. I just think that it's all about the mind. on trade with the mind. Yeah, I

Arlina Allen 2:21 couldn't agree more. Yeah, I'll be talking to Dr. Anne Lemke. She wrote that book that just was released dopamine nation, so I'm super excited about that. And also, never enough. Another neuroscientist. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I'm all about it. Awesome. What about do you have like a favorite go to mantra, he kind of said it this morning. When I asked I

Unknown Speaker 2:44 did I did. I always use that it's dreaming. I'm living the dream instead of dreaming a living is and it came to me. When I was homeless, passing a nice house with the children mum and dad. Having Christmas lunch. I used to dream of that. I used to dream of living that little dream. And I went I did. It just came to me one day, and it's been my mantra ever since.

Arlina Allen 3:08 Yeah, we do have a tendency to spend a lot of time in fantasy land. One more. Yeah. And that throws

Unknown Speaker 3:14 even afterwards, if I'm honest. Um, do you have a regular self care routine that you practice for yourself? I do every single day when I get up. First thing I want to do is I want to train my subconscious brain. So I go to the mirror. I love myself in the eyes. And I say I love you 10 times. I don't say any other affirmation just I love you. Because I used to have a big problem with that. So I'm kind of stored in the subconscious brain. So when it comes to like decision making, that's going to pop over to the prefrontal cortex, and I'm gonna go you know, something, I love myself today. I deserve this. So yeah, that's what I do. And then I write out five things, I'm going to accomplish that day. And, and the idea behind that is if I if I, if I complete all five, I've taken a step forward in life. If I only complete three or four, I've taken a step back in life.

Arlina Allen 4:07 Oh, interesting account. You know, what I heard recently is accountability. Empathy without accountability reinforces the victim mentality. Yes. I like that. I like the I like that accountability piece that you have for yourself. I have a feeling you're kind of a hard ass and I can't wait to talk to you about that. But I have one more question. I like I like to work question. What's the one thing you wish you knew when you first got sober? It's gonna be okay. That's gonna be my life's gonna be amazing. You're like this amazing? He says, um, and what do you do for fun?

Unknown Speaker 4:44 I have a music where am I used to be a musician when I was young. So I was a onstage musician and then I was a played at Abbey Road for about three or four years. I played with elton john Queen David Bowie. So I have a music room at home or with a full fall everything Got everything and you can imagine so I go in there about once every couple of days and I may play drums or guitar I might play keyboard I might write songs I might do a live YouTube. So that's what I do and of course walking my three English Bulldogs is also great

Arlina Allen 5:16 use I noticed that you have some big guns Do you consider exercise fun?

Unknown Speaker 5:21 Yes of course. Yeah, I I have what's called a mirror in the house. We also have a bike. A well known bike power.

Arlina Allen 5:28 The mirror the exercise mirror thing? Yeah. Oh, you like that? I'm, I'm I know. Phenomenal. You can do everything on that. Yeah. And you can make yourself look beautiful. Yes. If you really squint for me, I'm like, Oh, yeah. Can I just I don't want to gloss over the fact that you mentioned that you play with elton john and Queen. fucking amazing.

Unknown Speaker 5:49 Right on, right. That is

Arlina Allen 5:52 amazing. He just kind of like threw that out there very casually. That's pretty incredible.

Unknown Speaker 5:57 Yeah, why? It's what paid for courage college, I was a session musician. I grew up on a unmade projects. So I wasn't ever going anywhere, really. But I was wanting to better so I auditioned after playing another recording studio sessions and then added seven auditions and got the job. And I was only 16 at the time against perfect. I know. But I had this confident. Well, I said my mom used to tell me I used to walk around with a guitar around my neck and wouldn't even check it out of both. I was just because I'm musical family. I was on stage at nine. Family. So yeah, so awesome. Everyone asked the same thing. Who's the worst person you've played with? Regarding hanging around? Who's the best, worst person to elton john. Once he gets into that mood, his heart was

Arlina Allen 6:40 out before he got sober after?

Unknown Speaker 6:43 Yes, I think before it would be 79 around the area. And the best would be Freddie Mercury. We spent hours and hours late into the night chatting about philosophy and how it can change the world. So yeah, I got this

Arlina Allen 6:58 sense from Freddie Mercury that he'd be really funny.

Unknown Speaker 7:01 Oh, yeah, he is. He's always kind of switched on. You never find him in a bad mood. He's always smiling. He used to call me Robbie, darling.

Unknown Speaker 7:10 What else would he call you? Right?

Unknown Speaker 7:14 Awesome, guys.

Arlina Allen 7:15 It's amazing that he is truly truly unique. That's very cool. Okay, well, that's it for my silly lightning round questions. I always like to provide like Book Resources and things like that and sort of set the stage for mindset. But really, what I, what you and I think both care about is helping other people and to help other people I do I actually practice hypnotherapy. So when you talk about subconscious mind, neuroscience and all that stuff, what we're talking about is root cause, right? Because we're You and I are dealing with people that have chronic, persistent, pervasive conditioning from childhood. I read somewhere in your stuff that root causes are abandonment, fear and shame. Can you tell me a little bit about why those things lead us to want to medicate with drugs and alcohol? And really, mostly, what is your process to help treat that pervasive consist consistent conditioning?

Unknown Speaker 8:16 Well, we have to look, there's a couple of things you need to look out before again, that conversation and that is the alcoholic brain, which is a predisposition. We're born this way. So rather drink, not like drug taking. alcoholism is different. So we look at that brain, for instance, is what I study. And many people often ask me, what's the gateway drug? Rob? It's obviously marijuana. And my answer is always the same. It's trauma. That's the gateway drug. So I'm born this way. I have a remapped neural pathways at birth because you have the alcoholic brain, which wants to self sabotage any opportunity it can. So remapped and then trauma. Now when I'd say trauma, people think, Oh, well, I've never been in a car crash or, you know, it's no witness to murder or right. But drama could be in the house. So for instance, by my mom watching, hypothetically, one day and me and my brothers stood on the table, my brother's a normie. And my mom says to my brother, because this is what she said, and this is what she he hears, Paul, down on that table. You stupid idiot. Get down, and he jumps off and he laughs What I hear same sentence said to me in the same voice, get out of that chair, you stupid idiot. So my brain and subconscious brain and central nervous system is jacked up for a start. And all that wording, everything we hear, and we see is always stored in the subconscious brain every thing we do, and that's why the latest science that I do regarding the brain is helpful into the subconscious brain. So I'm automatically abandoned because of the way I hear and see things. So my dad used to work a lot of hours were a working class family. So I have hardly seen my dad there. abandonment issues straight away, which we don't think or abandonment issues. My dad's doing the best he can, you know? Oh, don't be silly, Robert, you can't go to college like your brother. Oh my goodness that does more harm than you could ever imagine. But my subconscious brain loves that stuff.

Arlina Allen 10:17 Why did she say Why did she say you can't Don't be silly, you can't go to college, it was

Unknown Speaker 10:22 just something my mom said, you know, it's not like my brother, when it's like, we can't go to college, we just don't do that. See, I was supposed to grow up, just like my parents. By the time I was 18, married by the time I was 19, have a baby or to have a normal nine to five working manual job and go to the pub every night and the way home. That was it from generations to generations. Because you can see that pattern of alcoholism and mindset going back through my family, that that's what they settled for. Now, I was different, I didn't want to settle for that. So going back to the abandonment, the alcoholic brain and central nervous system. And the whole aura is always felt as if we don't fit in. So I never fit in anywhere. So there's the abandonment, again, the shame of where I grew up. I grew up on the project counselor stage, all my friends I went to school with even though it was just a normal school, they lived on a private estates, which parents had a mortgage, we pay rent, I was so embarrassed about I was so shameful. And of course, when my drinking took over at the age of nine, I started but it took over about 2526 there was the shame of that. So what we do is we have to go back or we call is a scene of the crime. And we have to start clearing that stuff up. And the worst thing somebody can say to me is Oh, yeah, I've kind of worked on that myself. If you worked on that yourself, you won't be relaxing, first of all, and you won't be going through girlfriend's chain every week, you know, you're having, we have to really go back and look exactly what you do and repair that damage done in the past and usually by Kagan's

Arlina Allen 11:57 so when you say go back to the past and repair the damage, that is the crux of the treatment, right?

Unknown Speaker 12:04 Yes. Yes. Because you have to go back and look, you know, I mean, many people come in, they go, Okay, well, I drink him out. I don't do this. They do that. Well, anything, any trauma. Now. Everything's good. And when we go back and really pinpoint, they forget to tell me about the molestation from the father or the uncle or the priest. They forgot to tell me a bit homosexual actually did when he was nine or 10. They forgot to tell me about how the mum used to smack them across the face because their house wasn't tidy when they come home. So they kind of think well, mum and dad did the best now. I'm not having that. hating on people say that. Well, they did the best they could now, you know, I used to walk to school with holes in my socks, and cardboard in my shoes. Because I hold in my shoes. Walking on the snow to Mars. I had to watch work every day because my mom couldn't afford my socks and shoes. Now my mom could afford and my dad to go to the bar every Friday and Saturday night. So I had one person sat down once and he said this. He said wrong. You really upset about them shoes. And I said yeah, but my mom dad couldn't afford it. And he said this to me that changed my life. He says when your mom went to the bars every Friday, Saturday and Sunday night, did she have holes in her socks? And I was like, when he hit me I had more trauma and I could ever imagine growing up, you know, they will drop me with a friend. But when I got to the friend, the man and the woman they would say okay, we ever we have a naked night tonight. So everyone gets naked. I didn't tell my mom that because I thought it was natural.

Arlina Allen 13:36 Yeah, yeah. That everybody in the house got naked.

Unknown Speaker 13:40 Yeah, but you know, all the kids and the mom and dad. And that's just a Wait, why. So I went along. I never even mentioned it because I thought it was the norm. You see my I have a big thing. And it's this, anything less than nurturing as a child, his child abuse, especially what find out more about the brain and the central nervous system. I can never get a girlfriend, Why do I always leave? Why is it Why did I marry my dad? Well, it's like, you have to understand why we do these things. There's a pattern to our behavior. And if and if you're happy doing that pattern and living the way you're living great, but if you want to change your life, then you need to go back and clear this stuff up and change neural pathways from self sabotage to self care. Because at the moment, or when I was born up until about 28 when I got sober. I had more self sabotage. And then I did self care. So I start really good. Oh, I would look so good. I mean, when I was when I went to work, I do anything girlfriend, but after a month or two, it's self sabotage. If you feel like this. Oh my god, it's it's nine o'clock. Rob. You're not supposed to start till 10 and then six rather you're going home. I'll stay till seven A month later, Where the hell is Rob It's one o'clock. That's all my life has been like that. Because I self sabotage over any considerable period with a mindset like that.

Arlina Allen 14:59 Right? It's an internal In a mindset of I don't really truly deserve this

Unknown Speaker 15:04 100 and million percent and the other one is self dialog I can I can sell stuff so you don't have to say anything to me. I dropped a pat on the floor and I go What a stupid idiot when I'm picking it up loves that stuff so when I go for that car that job that girl that house whatever the subconscious brain goes, You stupid idiot. What are you doing here? You can't do this Did you think you are and I still get that today when I go on when I do speaking of setting the wing some town I'm thinking oh my god, they don't want what I've got nothing to offer. Oh my god, oh my god, and a panic. And then God taking a walk over and I'm a big spiritual guy now used to hate that word garden. Oh, we're all happy going to church. I used to hate that.

Arlina Allen 15:47 Did you go to church growing up?

Unknown Speaker 15:48 I did. I was a quiet I was a quiet boy I was I was a chorister, as they call it in the Protestant church had a great voice and my but my headmaster sexually abused me. One of the guys that you know, and I blame my mom. My mom knew about this.

Arlina Allen 16:06 That he was like that and sent you anyway.

Unknown Speaker 16:09 It was nothing directly talked about. But I remember being picked up. There's a there's a group out there of saying there's a cola, Vienna Boys Choir, and we should delete it. Well, my headmaster said well, who was also the the teacher of the music and the church, said to my mom, we have Robert an audition for the Vienna Boys Choir in Chester, which is 70 miles away for LA. He took me there and the rest was blurred. We never went to any audition. I come home feeling sick. Mom said I was silent for about three months. Yeah, I was concerned if and I was shocked. I don't remember the incident. But put two and two together. You know, I don't know of any audition. So it's a ruse. And then there was the neighbor across the road. That was about 1415. And he was he was married. But he was he was gay. And we go to the sauna together because I was into fitness and bodybuilding at the time. And he would try to MLS me and do things. And it was awkward. And no one made it into fun, but many years later, and I said oh you everyone needs to go to sauna. I said, Oh yeah, with the gay guy. And I looked at them. And I said, How'd you know? Now everyone knows about him? And I didn't say Arlina but I wanted to say why the fuck? Did you just let me go through five years of my life with this guy knowing quite well, what he's capable of doing. And he really kind of set me and not against my parents. But I'm thinking you know, the best he could is not good enough for me.

Arlina Allen 17:38 I don't know I heard that at a meeting one time this guy because you do hear that a lot and I think it's a way it's a sort of like spiritual bypassing like you have to go through the pain first and do the processing metabolize the pain Ababa. And sometimes that bought they did the best they could offers a little bit of peace. But if you don't do the work first, it's just spiritual bypassing and you're just putting a bandaid over a pile of shit. Right? Exactly. This guy stood up at a meeting one day and he like, pounded the podium. He goes it wasn't good enough. Yes, it wasn't. And I was like, Thank you finally somebody said

Unknown Speaker 18:18 you say the truth exists. And that's and that's what's missing. One of the things that I came to America because I wasn't known or famous or anything back then is I wanted to to have a platform where I could speak my mind. I don't report to anybody you know if I say the things that other people are thinking or wish they could say because it isn't good enough. You drop the fucking bar mom and dad own it you know get get oh well that's just the way that my dad never spoke to me. You know, he couldn't give him a gift he was one of them gave very embarrassed what it was just the way he was brought bullshit. Change it I changed it you know I lost my kids and all that but now I've got in touch with one of our I've changed it you know? Just to what No, it's not I'm not having that. You know,

Arlina Allen 19:00 what's important about owning it in your mind like when when you're when you tell somebody you know hey, it wasn't good enough and we want them to own it. Is it the validation is it a standing up for ourselves? What is it about owning it that is so important

Unknown Speaker 19:18 well first of all when I when I do that it's it's telling the truth it's out in the truth is that there are some there are some guys going up now around the world that don't even think the Holocaust happened. It's that crazy. Don't want people to get into that. It's like less reminders who dropped the ball and who didn't you know, and I like I like given information that you know people go oh shouldn't be talking about that. You know, first of all the alcoholism. Yes, we should. And I'm blatant when farmers comment on little Johnny's you know his his drinking every day like what he's gonna die. Whoa, you can't say that. Yours. Why? Why can I not speak the truth? Truth tell him for me is powerful. Yes, really is power. And I like to I like to. First of all, I have this order that attracts people when I speak. And that was a gift. I used to be on it, huh? Yeah, yeah. Now I say louder, say stronger, say proud. And people listen. And I love the fact that let's not keep it hidden away. Bring it out because alcoholics used to be until two, three years ago, where the gay community was 30 years ago, is that we don't talk about that. We don't really we know it goes on. But hey, you know, I always think I know right? But

Arlina Allen 20:33 okay, here's, here's this Sorry to interrupt you. But here's the thing. It's okay for you to get drunk and show your ass in public. Yeah, but God forbid you tell people I don't drink anymore. I just don't like black now. I don't like waking up. And the worst thing in

Unknown Speaker 20:47 the world is like, I heard this guy tell the joke when she was like, I went to the bar. And the guy said to me, do you want to drink and he says no one alcoholic? And he said what? He said, I'm sorry. I'm a I'm a serial killer. Thank God for that. scenario, when I'm out there just doing it. You know, it's

Arlina Allen 21:06 so crazy to me that people are so like, and people still like that are in recovery. And listen, I don't I don't come out with like, I'm an alcoholic. I'm just like, yeah, don't do that. It just depends on the audience. It really depends on you have to you have to know your audience. Like at work I used to when I was in corporate, I would just be like, yeah, just not drinking want to get up early. Want to be fresh.

Unknown Speaker 21:28 Yes. But I'm the last 10 years have been with people who are getting back in shape. And I've worked with a lot of a list footballers and stuff like that. And the fitness now is about getting back in shape, which covers for those people, I tell them the truth. You know, when they come in with a table, or you want a drink, and I was drinking, by the way to go do and drink, I'll just have cold coke. You're a big guy, you know, what you want to drink. Especially if it's a woman something it's like, I just have a little whiskey and like if I had a whiskey, first of all, I'm going to try to rape you. Or take you on in front of my wife. And then we're going to start fighting anybody who disagrees with me. And then I'm not going to actually get you on because I'll be arrested. What? That's what happens when I drink so I'll just have a coke. Yes, sir. And then walk away

Arlina Allen 22:14 from coke coming out. One time I made the mistake and tell this guy at work. Because I go oh, I don't drink and he goes How come and I tend to break out naked. And he was off to drinks place. Oh, wrong, wrong thing to say. Break out in handcuffs. How about that? I'm allergic. Yeah, nobody scared of me fighting. I'm like five, three. That's awesome. But okay, so you know what I wanted to ask you? I did. I saw a lot of your videos and things like that. And you have this very strong personality kind of in your face thing. And there. There are some people that that that that really respond like they respond to that people who are in denial, people who just need that. I think people crave that level of accountability. People want to know where the boundaries are, so they can feel safe. But I don't think it works for everyone. How do you know who that works for I you know, since you are able to adapt to every different kind of alcoholic? I think that's part of the gift the chameleon thing, right? I'm sure you have that too. You have learned to turn that into an asset. How do you read someone to know whether the in your face kind of style works or the gentle nurturing works?

Unknown Speaker 23:37 So usually the firt the first indication is where they contacted us. It's like, well, I heard this podcast and oh, my God, I love Dr. Rob cannon, that's the first one he needs in his face. And then you got a parent's recall about this 18 year old girl is second too much heroin. And you know, you need a different approach to that. So and then they need to take an assessment, one of the reasons why we have a 97% success rate, over 20 odd years, 30 years and 7000 patients is because of the assessment. So I find out real quick whether you whether you really want to do this deal. So when when we will not take anybody's money if we can't guarantee that they can recover. So the assessment kind of puts everything into place for me. And you know, most people want what I give, but there are so I have a psychotherapist that works with four girls of sorry, three girls and one guy that needs a soft approach. And that's great. We'll do that. Okay. No, but that

Arlina Allen 24:35 be assessment that so you You must turn away a lot of people who don't really want it.

Unknown Speaker 24:41 Yes. And that's what people can't understand, especially our so called treatment friends out there who keep checking the same person back time and time again for 30,000 a month is like I won't do that. Well, how do you survive? Well, we took almost a million dollars this year. How much did you take by being honest and straight with people because now we get to get be known like that is if you can't pass, I don't care how much money you've got. We've been offered blank checks, literally blank checks by billionaires and say fill it on yours.

Unknown Speaker 25:11 Yes, they're saying,

Unknown Speaker 25:12 My child is my child. I'll give you a blank check. You can do anything. You can buy your house, you can take a million you do. I'm the guy that turned down Britney Spears for a million dollars back in Dallas in the day because she came in she was drunk. She was three hours late. And she was a mess. So I said, No, I'm not doing it. Jamie at that girl bunnies are please Rob, please robbed. And the bodyguard often said, You're not leaving until you see her. So I'll put him in his place. And then two days later, she shaved all my hair off. So I won't do that. I can't lock in a parent's face and say, Hey, I'm really sorry. But she didn't want to know, I don't believe in that. If you get somebody with you, one on one, we do one hour a day for 90 days, you can change the way they think, per an

Arlina Allen 25:55 hour a day for 90 days. What do you do in that hour?

Unknown Speaker 25:58 Well, five days with me, and I go back and change neural pathways. And I change belief and I change behavior. And we build a future for them. So if they need a job, we'll get them on. If they need to start their own business, we'll build them a website, all this great stuff, my psychotherapist will go back to the scenes of the crime. He's specialize in childhood trauma, my number one coach, which is also my daughter, which we'll get into later, and Manchester office in England about a year ago. And she is the family, people because we believe if somebody calls, who wants help in a house, and this him, his wife and two children over the age of 16, all of them need to be in the program. We will take you on say, well, let's just be that sick. Now the house is sick, first of all, and the wife probably enabling, and she's going through some stuff, and she's probably mad or nervous breakdown. So either you all come on, or we don't see you as all

Arlina Allen 26:54 that brilliant.

Unknown Speaker 26:56 What do you think, you know, if you can imagine a house, let's be let's say speak Japanese. And we to take them out of the house and stick them in our houses, let's speak English, because we have a different language for recovery. So he speaks English, Japanese how still speaking Japanese. So we take the guy we're putting back into the Japanese speaking house, what's going to happen is going to start speaking Japanese. And that's one of the problems with recovery, you don't understand the family dynamic dynamics around the alcoholic, the whole family's sick and we need to heal the whole family. So we find that very unnecessarily intense work with the family dimension, the family unit. And of course, the alcoholic and the desperate wife, you know, terrible when we leave the wives alone or the husband's whoever the drinker is or the user. And we forget all about it. Because they've got the abandonment, they've got the shame, they've got the remorse they've got I always say, you know, sort of wives and husbands or partners or alcoholics or addicts, the PTSD that you have, because you have it, if you will, every one is no different from the PTSD from someone coming home from war. Now, I I love our soldiers, I'm an American citizen, I love them to bits, but just talk about the brain guys, because both of them never know it's going to be the last day, both of them never, no one's going to kick off. Both of them never know that you're not going to walk on eggshells today. It's the same thing. So the brain doesn't know the difference between war and war in the household. That's another thing that people don't understand. So the wife is going to be okay. Now she won't, you know, she will, you know, either commit suicide or do a runner or assist the alcoholic start drinking again, because she can't stand this new person that's come out. So it's really complex when when we talk about fixing, you know, it really is. And that's what we've done. We've spent 20 odd years, I do the latest brain science, I do brain spotting. What's brain spotting brain spot is a new development, that was only three people in the country or the world right now it can do it. Because it's not even, they haven't even bought a training course for it. But brain spotting is a technique that goes into the pupil and to the subconscious brain. It's a bit like a DMR. But it's it's a little different. So we're talking to the subconscious brain. And it's all about eye movement and the flicker in one eye. And then we stay with that flicker in that one eye and we find out what's caused that. And so

Arlina Allen 29:17 where are they? I can see I can I see where you're going with this. So when you say that you see the eye flicker that's in the indicate and can't speak this morning. That's an indication that there is a traumatic memory there. Yes. And so you have them you see like what's happening now? Yes, that kind of thing. And the

Unknown Speaker 29:36 first response, I know it's nothing, but we hold it there. We hold it. And they've got a look at the pan. And that may take five hours. It might take five minutes, but I'm staying there and all of a sudden they go Yeah, yeah. When you start talking about the traumatic event, it's the most powerful thing I've ever seen.

Arlina Allen 29:56 So that's so this is what's been coming up for me lately. is there's the traumatic events like EMDR, like you mentioned, the eye movement desensitization reprocessing or reprogramming. And then there's but what do you do with the people who have the consistent pervasive trauma day in and day out? Like I was talking to a gal who had a mother who was a heroin addict, and she would hear her mother on the phone saying, we don't have enough, I need money, I need to feed my kids. Like she was using her kids as a scapegoat. And she was using her kids to get money. And but and there were times when she didn't have food. So today, she hoards food, and she has a weight issue. Right? It's and so you know, we were going to do some EMDR, or some, you know, hypnosis on that. So she goes, but it's not one situation, it's pervasive. How do you treat that pervasive, repetitive conditioning like that mental conditioning?

Unknown Speaker 30:54 So we use the brain spotting, obviously, we also use a technique, which is called somatic experience, which is se people call it se. So we go back and we look at the central nervous system, and why is this being beat? Why is this happening? What's causing it, then we go into the brain, and we look at what's been happening in the past. So now we're using NLP neuro linguistic programming. So we're watching the behavior or watching the brain change and watching the trauma in the past, any patient or constantly, first of all needs to feel safe, we're getting in a safe place. And we go through that through the NLP or the SE. And we find out so then three techniques together, as as well as building confidence in the patient, that you're your own person, you know, and, unfortunately, we're going to go back, and we're going to pick them to pieces, the scene of the crime, as we call it, and then bring you forward through for the trauma through the behavior through the reaction that you have through the fear, but you haven't we walk them through bit by bit until they have clear conscience. And this takes time to deal with that in mind,

Arlina Allen 32:02 yeah. Okay. So you create the safe space, you build confidence, and then bring them through those traumatic experiences with the button. So that feeling of safety and confidence overrides? Yes. Fear. Oh, 100%. That's what is the rewiring of the brain?

Unknown Speaker 32:23 Yes, it's really it's resetting your pathways is what it is. Yeah. And then, and then once we've reset your pathways, and get them excited about life, the neurons start firing and get as excited. Every time we say certain things like thank you to somebody, dopamine is released into the brain, we use that a lot, you have to compliment three people every day. So it's a new technique that we have been doing for so many years, that used to call it out the box, they still call it out the box. But with the percentage rates that was on a success we had, we just really need to start looking at alternative ways to go back and fix this permanently. We don't need to go to for medication straight away. Because when we do, or,

Arlina Allen 33:03 I'm sorry, go ahead and finish.

Unknown Speaker 33:06 Thoughts about drugs, especially heroin addicts. 99.9% of heroin addicts started in the doctor's office, just because the doctor says it so it doesn't make it right. Or doesn't make it true. Yeah, and one of my big deals at the moment is fight against your doctor questioning why how when, what's going on? Why do I need to take this what damage is gonna do to what's the long term effect, but we don't we just go to doctors who are getting backhanders from somewhere, because the latest medication like vyvanse is out. And all of a sudden, it's the number one pill, you couldn't get it over here in Texas, you have to wait a week for vyvanse so popular he was someone who's getting something for doing that. What is five ounce vyvanse is a bit like it's it's amphetamine salts, it's it's a bit like Adderall. It's a different name on it. So when we're feeding our kids, amphetamine salts, speed is what we're giving our kids for attention deficit, when I was a kid, attention deficit was a slap across the head and say, concentrate. But there's a whole new story on that, where we go with that I can't get into it now. Because there's a lot more to explain about that. But that's that's what we do with people, you know, and we build them up and we create a life worth living. And we'll go to any lengths to do it and the length now, so doing as we have to,

Arlina Allen 34:23 yeah, let me ask you, there's a lot of talk about I really don't have any judgment about about how people get sober and I understand that there's, you know, harm reduction is a thing. Yes, right. Like I get that and but I'm always I don't have enough information to make an informed decision about like the brain and the neural pathways and because while I think it's important for you know, people are smoking weed to get off heroin and that keeps them alive. God bless you. Do what you got to do. My concern is that like If the emotional and mental evolution or progress ends there, Do you have feelings about I'm sure you have feelings or opinions about like, why is harm reduction? not meant to be a permanent thing? Like how, like when I talk to people like that, how can we move them? Yes, I'm glad you're alive. If that's what's keeping you alive, I don't even have an opinion. But what about, what about one day stopping that? What about healing your brain and your dopamine reward system so that you no longer have to do that you can have the benefits of living a full life. Yeah, because I've heard of people on Suboxone for years, that's not the idea, you know, is much harder to come off Suboxone is heroin as a fact. So what we have to do is, is down step and grade and down and then taper off gradually and have an end date for that. So let's say the end date is two months or three months, we need to we need to keep heading towards that. And eventually as the brain starts to weaken up, and the central nervous system starts to activate supposed to do, and the feelings start coming back. And you realize that life is worth living and so much you've missed out on, eventually the end date will happen, and then be able to come off successfully. So depending on how far down how bad the psychosis is, how bad the day has been damaged, you cannot just stop and say, Okay, my fault drugs now, that's the worst thing in the world you can do, right best thing in the world you can do is seek doctor's help, come down and get your doctor to bring you down. Same with alcohol. I'm wherever they call me all the time, while he's drunk. Uh, you know, he's in a bad state of head. Now the bottles, don't hide the bottles, make him drink until he gets to detox. And many people are just ignorant about these because lack of now, therefore, his lack of information, though, we've been stuck in a closet for so long that you know, and that's one of the things that you want to do. Listen, when I was homeless people used to spit on me on the floor. I used to wake up and kids used to throw diapers on me that will fall. You know, having a lie. I woke up one morning, I was covered in this stuff. And I just I'm angry at that. And I'm really happy that I'm in a great place to do that today. So you know, I'm really strong on let's get a solution, a permanent solution for this minutes lotion, medication. Unfortunately, I don't think for addiction or alcoholism in general, permanent medication is not the way to go. That's in my opinion. because nothing's good enough for me. You know, we go to the sandwich shop, my friend has a sandwich and a call, I get to seminary a bag of chips, two cups, you know, I want 50,000 in the bank. Great. So when we get it Oh, it's just 100. It's crazy. So giving people drugs over lunch impaired regarding alcohol in our government, their addiction, not talking about medical, I take, I take a small drug for my depression, my antidepressant. And I'm proud of that, and I'm not coming off it. And that's the way it goes, you know, we should have that fine line between good medical advice. And don't listen to what other people say. So when it comes down to hardcore, abstinence completely 100% for that, the way we get there, wow, I don't care how you get there. When you come to me, there's an A, B, and C and you'll follow that up. People often say the difference between a therapist and what Dr. Rob's crew does, is the therapist will ask you How are you feeling? Then bastards will tell you how to feel. It's like, well, that's what it is. Because if I sat here long enough for me, and I said, I love you. I think you're the most amazing, gorgeous person I've ever seen. I want to leave my late wife tomorrow. And I want to come and find you out and marry you. You're going to laugh. But if I said it often enough, you're going to start to believe it. And if I said it real often enough, I'm going to start to believe it. So what we hear when we get these patients in sets them up for an amazing life. When's the last time somebody said you're an amazing person? When's the last time we thank somebody? I'll tell them I love you. When you start saying you stopped at a hospital walked in and thanked all the nurses. It never happens. Because especially when you get to a position like me and other people like me. I'm in the office some months ago and have two nurses there once a year once in their ages. And I heard them once said, oh my god. Did you see what Dr. Kerry just did with that guy? came in measureable suicidal, he walked out laughing and Western said bye to everybody is an absolute miracle worker 90 days. Yeah. And the older nurses said, Hey, have you told him that? And said, No, not me. They already knows. But I knows. We don't know. No, no. That's okay. So.

So this is the interesting thing about, you know, the default mode network, right? That that operating system that we have in our brain and we tend to this what I've had this, you know, this observation that we need that if we've had constant conditioning of negativity, right like you were talking about repetition, you said if I tell you All these beautiful things, you're gonna start to believe that I'm gonna start to believing it's the repetition because the subconscious mind doesn't filter false from the truth. Right? It just takes, it's like the balance scale, which is kind of the good news, right? There's that idea of 51% that we're actually all you need is 51% to tip the scale, right? So it's this ongoing conditioning that that we need. So over those 90 days, they get the, you know, they get reconditioned, their mind is reset, the family is re adjusted. But the kicker is the the default mode network and going back to the old way, it's like if we don't maintain the conditioning, is it true that they go back to the old ways? What do you do for the ongoing conditioning course?

Unknown Speaker 40:46 So this is my guys who are less than I'm sorry, what guys are watching? This is my self sabotage. neuropathways there's a blue plan. lymphocytes out sabotage, okay, these down here. Your small bits of self care. This runs my brain. Yes, I will self sabotage. So what this program does is it takes you from there to there,

Arlina Allen 41:09 flips it over.

Unknown Speaker 41:10 Yeah, so so they said never going to go away. So we need to daily maintain this by the smallest things obviously Peter, spiritual guy, you pray, covenant people at the Good Samaritan, you know, whenever I go into a room, like the room up, because if I walk into a room with a frown on my face, those people are gonna frown back. If I walk in the room and a smile on my face, most people gonna smile back. That's the hardest thing for people to do is practice smiling. You know, because the world needs leaders, you could be a leader for a day in the office or that waiting room or, you know, the elevator, you know, it's all about carrying carrying a message of Hey, you can be anything you want. And people people used to go Dr. Robert cambia president as I beg to differ today. You know, our business has just been run our country Don't tell me you can't do anything. There's no difference in somebody who comes to me almost homeless or homeless like me, and they and the CEO sat in that office above the only difference is he believed he could do it you don't want to believe that they can do it. The world is that oyster? Absolutely.

Arlina Allen 42:13 People really understand how powerful beliefs are no are all in your subconscious mind.

Unknown Speaker 42:20 Yeah, all powerful they are I always tell people your power but you just don't know it we need to start realizing how powerful you really are.

Arlina Allen 42:28 Yes, I think you know and traditional, like 12 step record like the old school recovery is beating the drum of you're powerless you're powerless over you know, that hear it all the time. powerless over people places and things and I think I have to call bullshit on that.

Unknown Speaker 42:43 Because you know, it's the face the biggest myth in a Yeah, is what because what is that once the Heartless were all put? No, it doesn't.

Arlina Allen 42:51 alcohol.

Unknown Speaker 42:53 What are the step one says we admitted we were powerless. How can I be power is not aware, no apostrophe in there. But people put in all powers over I'm not powerless over alcohol. I pass the liquor store. Hey, man, it's a past tense, they meant it to be a past tense. The term a permanent recovery. We had mentioned we were and our lives had now. It's all past tense once you start the steps if you've read the book, I mean, I love 12 step meetings with that big book because it's the truth. Yeah, talk about a psychic change and people go is that crystal ball? Listen, in 1938 when they were talking about a psychic change, it was changed neural pathways. 10 years ago, only 10 years ago in the medical fraternity, we found the brain was like plastic neuroplasticity they call it so same thing to change the neural pathways a mold in them in 1938 these guys were talking about that. Ai rooms right now are a joke. 90% of people in any meeting around the world is a heavy drinker. And we allow them to get away with this bullshit that come in. Oh, today I want to talk about I went to bed last night and my cat was looking bear up from my husband. Is he an alcoholic? Fuck Really? You know, we allow these guys to do that. So the real message is gone. But I've got to tell you 20

Arlina Allen 44:08 depends where you go. It did. Not only not all meetings are created. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 44:13 no, they're not. They're amazing meetings. But there's the best piece of literature I've ever read. Is the 164 about about Blue Book. Oh, yeah. All the studies I've done in the world regarding that pertaining to the recovery of an alcoholic was the best book I've ever read.

Arlina Allen 44:25 Yeah, I love the community that Yeah, there's so many good things but but you know, you just blew my mind with the whole we're powerless. Not we're powerless. Little apostrophe makes all the difference. And I guess the one thing that really bothers me about the 12 step community is the way some people treat the book like a new Bible. It's the religious dogmatic, like they're close minded to other things. And I wanted to ask you if you had any thoughts or opinions on, like treatment resistant depression with the use of psychedelics, I know Johns Hopkins is doing lots of studies. And there's this new like alternative recovery for people with like, intense heroin addiction or tend to alcoholism. They're doing these Iosco retreats in Costa Rica do what what are your thoughts on those?

Unknown Speaker 45:16 Well, I have to be really kind of medical hair and say, hey, there's not enough data to make a decision right now. But we only know a little about the brain, we're discovering more and more every month. So why wouldn't you try that? Why wouldn't you try a different route to get to the same end result? Which is sanity? and living your best life? You know, and it may work for you? It may not? AIA may work for you. It may not. I mean, you don't have to go one place. 111 place is not the answer to everyone's problems here. The answer is to seek out the treatment that your doctor or therapist tells you to try. And I tried aect about five years ago with electronics I can't remember now trauma or something. But I was depressed, very, very depressed. And this is what my hater my career, but I did it for about four weeks best thing I ever did. Oh, my thing I ever did. Yeah, in literally four or five weeks. So I am always looking at different alternative new treatment, you know, and I don't put it down on anybody or anything from the medical fraternity that wants to be tried. Because why wouldn't we?

Arlina Allen 46:23 Yeah, I've seen some just really interest. I've been hearing lots of experiences from people who talk about doing these Iosco retreats, I practice abstinence, my life is great. And I don't feel the need to I don't suffer from depression. It sounds very interesting, because it is a it sounds like a process of dissolving the ego. And really, it's like, it's like it drops the veil of denial. And you can see things clearly what you were talking about before about recognizing and acknowledging the truth, right, the truth of maybe some of the fear and the abandonment in the past. And I just found that really interesting. It'll be interesting to see what the Johns Hopkins clinical trials do. But I know of people personally who do things like the micro dosing to treat clinical depression, and things like

Unknown Speaker 47:12 somebody like john hopkins university, and hospital to try this because everyone else would put a dampener on it. So I'm glad a good name in the industry. And the medical fraternity has actually taken steps to do this. I think it's absolutely amazing. But at the end of the day, it all goes back to your childhood. And you always go back to the predisposition and the heredis do facts of any illness around especially alcoholism and addiction. So it would be interesting to find out because the problem is with this world right now, is everybody knows somebody with an alcohol or drug problem. And I always say to him, if you don't, it's probably you. Because everybody knows somebody. You know, and a few times I've said that people got very quiet, and ended the conversation real quick. Yeah. So you know, let's bring it out into the open. Let's try all these things for different people and see if we can get a response.

Arlina Allen 48:06 Yeah, yeah, life is short. Let's just Cut the bullshit and get to the truth.

Unknown Speaker 48:11 sugarcoating. This shit kills people. And when somebody goes into a room, and a room and goes, Well, we're all powerless over alcohol. My answer is always the same. How many fucking people have you killed with that line? How many people have you killed by just saying that you self sank just son of a bitch. Read the park? If you if you stuck in is that was that mean? Read the information that tells us read it. It's awesome.

Arlina Allen 48:35 Yeah, and it's not it's not only read it but apply it right we have to take action and apply the information. So it's not enough to know how we are know what we need to know the how we need to know how to apply this information. And, and listen, I just love what you're doing. It's I'm so pumped. I'm gonna leave all your links in the show notes. What's the best way to get ahold of you? If somebody is needing your help or wanting your help

Unknown Speaker 49:00 jump on a Google or anything like that search engine. Just put my name in there. Dr. Rob Kelly, you'll see me websites Rob Kelly, calm I spell my name with two B's. So it's our BB k e Ll y.com. And if you want Listen, guys, I want to say something. If you're sat at home and listen to this and don't think you're worth anything and don't think you can allow anything because of your past. I want to apologize to you guys. Because somebody put that there. We are born with million dollar minds stop hanging around 10 cent minds, it's not for you. So that being said, I know people are set on going it's okay for him to do a turn to I don't know what to do. I'm going to give you my phone number here and my personal phone number. And if you're sat at home in a bad state, I'd rather come and help you right now and come to your funeral. So if you're sat at home in a bad state and want a 10 minute pep talk that will change your life. Here's my personal phone number people don't believe me. This is my cell phone number. It's not my assistance. It's not the front desk. It's 214600 zero to one, zero. Now, as you can imagine, I'm a busy guy where you call me or text me, leave a message, I will get back to you and it will be okay. Don't believe the hype. It's gonna be alright.

Arlina Allen 50:12 Wow, that's impressive. I was like, Oh shit, he's really going to do it.

Unknown Speaker 50:17 No, people are surprised that that you know, it just I know, I'm in the trenches with you guys. It's on to a homeless guy that got his kids taken off in, you know, that fell asleep. Last drive his kids Three days later not being changed or fed and I'm drunk on the floor, and the police drag them out of there. This is the guy that his eldest daughter said, baby, Daddy, please stop drinking and I couldn't do it. Six months later, I was homeless, the million dollar house had gone. The cars the wife, the kids, the parents, the brother and sister, I was abandoned on the street, I can do this. I'd love to sit here and tell you, I'm really clever. But I'm not. If I can do this, you can do that. You just need that 10 Mini pep talk to set you on the real track. And of course it had been helped you professionally, of course. But you do have to pass an assessment. And 75% of people that come to us fail the assessment, unfortunately, because we're the real deal. We're talking to true.

Arlina Allen 51:09 accountability. I love it. Dr. Rob Kelly, thank you so much for your time today. I am so inspired and excited about the work that you're doing. I can't wait to leave all the links to all the resources and thank you so much for being the real deal and giving your phone number. That's incredible.

Unknown Speaker 51:29 I know it's awesome. Thank you guys for listening and thank you Arlina you're an amazing and I love you by the way.

Arlina Allen 51:34 I love you. I believe you. You have a wonderful day. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye bye

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