The Rise and Fall of the EAST: MIT's Yasheng Huang on his new book
Aug 31, 2023
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MIT professor Yasheng Huang discusses his new book 'The Rise and Fall of the EAST' on Sinica podcast. Topics include China's success, political constraints, correlation between wealth and negative outcomes, significance of multiple wives in Chinese culture, cognitive rewiring, China's political evolution, Needham question on science and technology, China's anti-corruption campaign, and the rise and fall of the East.
The development of bureaucracy in China and the West led to different outcomes, with China's bureaucracy becoming powerful and overwhelming, while the West's system of checks and balances maintained a balance between politics and bureaucracy.
Literacy in China, through the civil service examination system, did not have the liberalizing effects seen in the West, as it was directed towards the state and lacked oppositional and liberal elements.
The civil service examination system in China had both strengths and drawbacks, promoting meritocracy and stability but stifling political competition and social mobility.
The relationship between wealth and power in China was different from the West, with the civil service examination system serving to keep potential challengers, like wealthy individuals, out of influential positions.
Deep dives
The significance of the Chinese state and its impact on society in the world of politics
The development of bureaucracy and politics in China and the West, with China developing bureaucracy first, has led to different outcomes. In China, bureaucracy became powerful and overwhelming, without the constraints of politics, leading to a state-dominated society. In the West, politics developed first, creating a system of checks and balances that kept bureaucracy in check. This pluralistic approach allowed for a balance between politics and bureaucracy, preventing the dominance of one over the other.
The role of literacy and its effects in China and the West
Literacy in China, particularly through the civil service examination system, did not lead to the same liberalizing and inquisitive effects seen in the West. While Western literacy was associated with a challenging of authority, literacy in China was directed towards the state and lacked the oppositional and liberal effects. The state-dominated nature of Chinese society and the lack of political pluralism may have contributed to the different outcomes of literacy in China and the West.
The influence of the civil service examination system on Chinese society
The civil service examination system in China had a profound impact on society, selecting individuals based on objective criteria and creating a powerful bureaucracy. The system not only selected individuals for government positions, but also de-selected those who were wealthy and potentially challenging to the imperial authority. While the system had its strengths, such as promoting meritocracy and stability, it also led to a lack of political competition and stifled social mobility.
The contrast between Western and Chinese systems in relation to wealth and power
In the West, wealth is often associated with power and influence, enabling individuals to challenge authority or have an impact on politics. However, in China, wealth and power were not directly linked, and the civil service examination system served to keep potential challengers, such as wealthy individuals, out of positions of influence. This divergence in the relationship between wealth and power between the West and China influenced the dynamics of their respective societies and political systems.
The Needham Question and Chinese Technological Progress
The podcast episode explores the famous Needham question, which asks why the scientific and industrial revolutions took place in Europe and not in China. The guest, Yasheng Huang, discusses his efforts to answer this question by creating a database of Chinese inventions and examining the historical context. Huang argues that Chinese science and technology were most advanced during periods of political decentralization and scope conditions, which allowed for academic collaborations and technological advancements. He challenges the conventional belief that China's success is solely attributed to scale and government support, emphasizing the importance of collaboration and scope in driving innovation and progress.
China's Reform Era and Scope Conditions
Huang examines China's reform and opening period and argues that it was not just a matter of scale, but also scope conditions that contributed to China's technological progress. He highlights the importance of academic collaboration, technological collaborations with the private sector, and globalization in driving innovation. Huang suggests that China's recent focus on scale and the crackdown on corruption has led to a diminishing of scope conditions and could impact the future success of the country. He discusses the need for systemic reforms, such as asset disclosure and transparency, to foster trust and a conducive environment for innovation.
The Challenge of Succession and Implications for China's Future
The podcast delves into the challenge of succession in China and its implications for the country's future. Huang discusses the work of Gordon Tullock, who argued that autocracies often struggle with succession due to wrong incentives and fear of being denominated. Huang suggests that China's extensive anti-corruption campaign has further complicated succession, making it difficult for leaders to step down. He proposes alternative approaches, such as declaring amnesty and focusing on systemic reforms, to address corruption issues while avoiding the negative consequences of an ongoing anti-corruption campaign. Huang reflects on the future of China's leadership and the potential risks associated with the concentration of power and militarization in the country.
This week on Sinica, MIT professor Yasheng Huang joins Kaiser to talk about his brand new book The Rise and Fall of the EAST: How Exams, Autocracy, Stability, and Technology Brought China Success, and Why they Might Lead to its Decline. This ambitious and thought-provoking book is bound to stir up quite a bit of controversy. It’s a long conversation — but worth the listen!
