Turning Towards Life - a Thirdspace podcast 422: Woven Into Everything
Nov 9, 2025
39:30
How do we discover what brings life and vitality to us? How do we identify and acknowledge the destructive forces within ourselves? Can we approach the complex, ongoing process of discernment with maturity and nuance, avoiding simplistic judgments? And what resources or practices can we trust to guide us through this challenging work?
This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace.
Episode Overview
00:00 Introduction and Context of the Conversation
02:57 Our Source for This Week, by Nick Cave
06:05 The Nature of Evil and Human Complexity
08:41 The Inherent Potential for Goodness in Humanity
12:00 The Cosmic Disposition Towards Goodness
14:47 The Duality of Good and Evil in Human Experience
17:45 The Responsibility of Attending to Sorrow
20:46 The Choice to Cultivate Goodness
24:05 The Power of Intentional Living
26:41 The Complexity of Human Relationships
30:01 The Importance of Slowing Down and Reflecting
33:01 Conclusion and Reflection on the Conversation
Woven Into Everything
I am inclined to believe in a form of intelligence within the universe, as I hold that consciousness or ‘intelligence’ exists throughout everything, that it goes all the way down to the fundamental atomic matter of things. This force, woven into everything - both living and non-living - is inherently good. If we choose, we could call this force God. I view this power as a kind of cosmic disposition that grows, understands, and empathises with us - suffers with us, you might say - and that humans are ‘fractal', as Cormac so beautifully puts it, exemplars or metaphors of the melancholic nature of this God-soaked universe.
I believe that evil exists not only within the human heart but also as an external energy separate from us, moving through the world - a nullifying, destructive potency - 'going to and fro in the earth and walking up and down in it’. We can see it, if we choose, all around us. Yet, we can act as the remedy to this existential predicament by directing our efforts towards the world’s flourishing and away from its destruction, in whatever way we can. It is our duty to attend to the sorrow of the universe - the sorrow of God.
Nick Cave
from The Red Hand Files Issue # 342
Photo by NASA on Unsplash
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Join Us Live in 2026
Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online
Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'.
www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching
Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026
Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice.
You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live
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About Turning Towards Life
Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace. Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify.
Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe
Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife
This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace.
Episode Overview
00:00 Introduction and Context of the Conversation
02:57 Our Source for This Week, by Nick Cave
06:05 The Nature of Evil and Human Complexity
08:41 The Inherent Potential for Goodness in Humanity
12:00 The Cosmic Disposition Towards Goodness
14:47 The Duality of Good and Evil in Human Experience
17:45 The Responsibility of Attending to Sorrow
20:46 The Choice to Cultivate Goodness
24:05 The Power of Intentional Living
26:41 The Complexity of Human Relationships
30:01 The Importance of Slowing Down and Reflecting
33:01 Conclusion and Reflection on the Conversation
Woven Into Everything
I am inclined to believe in a form of intelligence within the universe, as I hold that consciousness or ‘intelligence’ exists throughout everything, that it goes all the way down to the fundamental atomic matter of things. This force, woven into everything - both living and non-living - is inherently good. If we choose, we could call this force God. I view this power as a kind of cosmic disposition that grows, understands, and empathises with us - suffers with us, you might say - and that humans are ‘fractal', as Cormac so beautifully puts it, exemplars or metaphors of the melancholic nature of this God-soaked universe.
I believe that evil exists not only within the human heart but also as an external energy separate from us, moving through the world - a nullifying, destructive potency - 'going to and fro in the earth and walking up and down in it’. We can see it, if we choose, all around us. Yet, we can act as the remedy to this existential predicament by directing our efforts towards the world’s flourishing and away from its destruction, in whatever way we can. It is our duty to attend to the sorrow of the universe - the sorrow of God.
Nick Cave
from The Red Hand Files Issue # 342
Photo by NASA on Unsplash
---
Join Us Live in 2026
Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online
Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'.
www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching
Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026
Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice.
You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live
----
About Turning Towards Life
Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace. Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify.
Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe
Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife