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The Infernal Triangle (w/ Rick Perlstein)

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Oct 25, 2024

Guest

Rick Perlstein

Rick Perlstein, an acclaimed author on American conservatism, joins the discussion to explore the media's failures in addressing Trump and the far right. He critiques how elite journalism often simplifies complex narratives and inadvertently enables right-wing movements. The conversation highlights the Democratic Party's tendency towards 'conservatism lite' and reflects on the historical evolution of conservative thought. Perlstein also examines the troubling relationship between polling, public sentiment, and the implications for democracy today.

59:47

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Transcript

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Episode notes

insights

INSIGHT

Misjudging the Right

Rick Perlstein reflects on his 2017 mea culpa piece about misjudging the right.
He admits to previously downplaying the extremist elements and focusing too much on the establishment narrative.

insights

INSIGHT

Journalistic Conventions

Perlstein critiques journalistic conventions that hinder accurate coverage of Trump and the far right.
He points to "sane washing," both-sidesism, and horse-race narratives as major issues.

question_answer

ANECDOTE

Trump's Spokesman

Sam Adler-Bell mentions a New Yorker piece profiling Trump's spokesman, Stephen Chung.
The piece highlights how Chung's behind-the-scenes helpfulness allows journalists to cover the Trump campaign conventionally, despite his extreme public statements.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Reflections on Past Encounters and Academic Relationships

02:10 • 2min

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Exploring the Infernal Triangle of Politics

04:06 • 5min

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The Evolution of Conservative Thought

09:22 • 9min

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Media Narratives and Political Extremism

18:47 • 22min

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The Power of Polling in Politics

41:07 • 7min

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Conservative Complexities and Trump's Influence

• Mentioned in 6 episodes

Nixonland

The Rise of a President and the Fracturing of America

Rick Perlstein

Rick Perlstein’s book recaptures America’s turbulent 1960s and early 1970s, revealing how Richard Nixon rose from political obscurity to seize and hold the presidency. The book begins with the 1965 Watts riots and spans through the political upheavals up to Nixon’s reelection in 1972. Perlstein’s narrative highlights how Nixon manipulated social and political events to shape the current political landscape, creating a deep rift in American society that persists to this day. The book is filled with prodigious research and vivid detail, making it a grand historical epic that sheds new light on modern American politics.

#8681

• Mentioned in 3 episodes

Finish What We Started

The MAGA Movement's Ground War to End Democracy

Isaac Arnsdorf

Finish What We Started tells the story of the ordinary Americans driving the MAGA movement, who they are, where they came from, what motivates them, and what their movement means for the survival of American democracy. Drawing on extensive, exclusive on-the-ground reporting and deepened by historical context, Isaac Arnsdorf combines critical and rigorous reporting with the intimacy and complexity of a novel. The book provides a defining account of the movement since Donald Trump transformed American politics and offers insights into its radicalization and future implications for democracy.

#41

• Mentioned in 173 episodes

Hillbilly Elegy

A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis

JD Vance

In 'Hillbilly Elegy,' J.D. Vance recounts his life growing up in a dysfunctional family in Middletown, Ohio, with roots in Kentucky's Appalachia. The book details his experiences with poverty, addiction, and family violence, as well as his journey to joining the marines and eventually graduating from Yale Law School. Vance provides a personal and insightful look into the decline of the white working class in America, exploring themes of family, culture, and the loss of the American dream. The memoir also touches on the political swing of the region, particularly in relation to the 2016 presidential election and the appeal of Donald Trump to this demographic.

#42006

Lost in Gallup, Polling Failure in U.S. Presidential Elections

Polling Failure in U.S. Presidential Elections

W. Joseph Campbell

W. Joseph Campbell's "Lost in Gallup" delves into the history of polling failures in US presidential elections. The book uses case studies to illustrate how pollsters have misjudged election outcomes, highlighting the limitations and biases inherent in polling methodologies. Campbell analyzes the impact of these failures on the political landscape and public perception of polling accuracy. He explores the evolution of polling techniques and the challenges of accurately predicting election results. The book serves as a cautionary tale about the limitations of relying solely on polls for understanding public opinion.

#529

• Mentioned in 33 episodes

The storm before the storm

The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic

Duncan, Michael (Podcaster)

Mike Duncan

This book chronicles the years 146-78 BC, a period marked by the rise of economic inequality, social and ethnic prejudice, and rampant corruption, which ultimately led to the collapse of the Roman Republic. Duncan explores how men like Marius, Sulla, and the Gracchi brothers set new precedents that undermined the traditional principles of the Republic, leading it towards destruction. The book also draws parallels between the decline of the Roman Republic and contemporary political issues, highlighting the importance of maintaining democratic norms and addressing social and economic inequalities.

#14851

• Mentioned in 2 episodes

The invisible bridge

Rick Perlstein

The Invisible Bridge offers a compelling portrait of America during the 1970s, focusing on the fall of Richard Nixon and the rise of Ronald Reagan. The book delves into the Watergate scandal, the economic challenges of the era, and the cultural shifts that defined the decade. Perlstein's work is praised for its engaging narrative style and its ability to connect historical events to contemporary American politics.

#28676

The populist persuasion

Michael Kazin

In *The Populist Persuasion*, Michael Kazin provides a comprehensive analysis of populism in America, highlighting its adaptable nature and its role in conflicts between powerful elites and 'the people'. The book explores how populism has been used across the political spectrum to challenge established powers and ideologies. Kazin's work has significantly influenced debates on populism, especially in the context of recent political events like the 2016 elections and Brexit.

#44361

The Infernal Triangle

Authoritarian Republicans, Ineffectual Democrats, and a Clueless Media

Rick Perlstein

In 'The Infernal Triangle', Rick Perlstein explores the complex interplay between authoritarian Republicans, ineffectual Democrats, and a media that often fails to adequately address these dynamics. The book delves into how these elements have shaped American politics from 2000 to the present, highlighting issues like Republican viciousness, Democratic fecklessness, and media incompetence.

The author of several excellent books about the history of American conservatism, including The Invisible Bridge, Nixonland, and Reaganland, Rick Perlstein makes his triumphant return to Know Your Enemy. Drawing on Rick's wealth of historical knowledge, as well as his American Prospect column — entitled "The Infernal Triangle" — we explore the failures of American media elites and the Democratic Party to reckon with Donald Trump and his antecedents on the far right. What are the habits and genres of American journalism that inhibit an adequate accounting of Trump's rise and influence? Why do Democrats tend to adopt "conservatism lite," when faced with a far right opponent? How has Rick's perspective on studying the right changed since he began his work in the 1990s? And how will future historians make sense of these times? Listen to find out!

Further Reading

Rick Perlstein, Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus, (2009)

— "I Thought I Understood the American Right. Trump Proved Me Wrong." New York Times, Apr 11, 2017.

— "The Polling Imperilment," American Prospect, Sept 25, 2024.

— "The Election Story Nobody Wants to Talk About," American Prospect, Aug 28, 2024.

— "Project 2025 … and 1921, and 1973, and 1981," American Prospect, Jul 10, 2024.

W. Joseph Campbell, Lost in a Gallup: Polling Failure in U.S. Presidential Elections, (2020)

Isaac Arnsdorf, Finish What We Started: The MAGA Movement’s Ground War to End Democracy, (2023)

Phoebe Petrovic, "Right-Wing Activists Pushed False Claims About Election Fraud. Now They’re Recruiting Poll Workers in Swing States." ProPublica / Wisconsin Watch, Oct 16, 2024.

Clare Malone, "The Face of Donald Trump’s Deceptively Savvy Media Strategy," New Yorker, Mar 25, 2024.

Matthew Sitman, "Will Be Wild: Reading the January 6th Committee Report," Dissent, Apr 18, 2023.

Listen Again:

"On the Road to Reaganland" (w/ Rick Perlstein and Leon Neyfakh), Oct 21, 2020

"The History of the History of the Right" (w/ Kim Phillips-Fein), Jan 17, 2024

...and don't forget to subscribe to Know Your Enemy on Patreon to listen to all of our bonus episodes!

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