Know Your Enemy

The Infernal Triangle (w/ Rick Perlstein)

Oct 25, 2024

59:47

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Rick Perlstein, an acclaimed author on American conservatism, joins the discussion to explore the media's failures in addressing Trump and the far right. He critiques how elite journalism often simplifies complex narratives and inadvertently enables right-wing movements. The conversation highlights the Democratic Party's tendency towards 'conservatism lite' and reflects on the historical evolution of conservative thought. Perlstein also examines the troubling relationship between polling, public sentiment, and the implications for democracy today.

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Quick takeaways

Rick Perlstein critiques American journalism for its inability to adequately address the complexities of Donald Trump's rhetoric and its implications.

The concept of the 'Infernal Triangle' illustrates the problematic dynamics between the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, and ineffective journalism.

Perlstein emphasizes the need for deeper political journalism that addresses underlying societal tensions rather than superficial election narratives.

Deep dives

Challenges of Elite Journalism in Covering Trump

The episode discusses the ongoing struggles of elite journalism to effectively grapple with the complexities of Donald Trump and the far right. Current media practices tend to simplify or misinterpret the motivations and rhetoric of far-right figures, leading to a dangerous complacency in reporting. For instance, media outlets often mislabel Trump's statements as mere ramblings, failing to recognize the deep-seated appeal they hold for a substantial portion of the public. This lack of critical engagement results in a skewed understanding of political realities and empowers extremist narratives rather than challenging them.

Intro

2min

Reflections on Past Encounters and Academic Relationships

2min

Exploring the Infernal Triangle of Politics

5min

The Evolution of Conservative Thought

9min

Media Narratives and Political Extremism

22min

The Power of Polling in Politics

7min

Conservative Complexities and Trump's Influence

12min

The author of several excellent books about the history of American conservatism, including The Invisible Bridge, Nixonland, and Reaganland, Rick Perlstein makes his triumphant return to Know Your Enemy. Drawing on Rick's wealth of historical knowledge, as well as his American Prospect column — entitled "The Infernal Triangle" — we explore the failures of American media elites and the Democratic Party to reckon with Donald Trump and his antecedents on the far right. What are the habits and genres of American journalism that inhibit an adequate accounting of Trump's rise and influence? Why do Democrats tend to adopt "conservatism lite," when faced with a far right opponent? How has Rick's perspective on studying the right changed since he began his work in the 1990s? And how will future historians make sense of these times? Listen to find out!

Further Reading

Rick Perlstein, Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus, (2009)

— "I Thought I Understood the American Right. Trump Proved Me Wrong." New York Times, Apr 11, 2017.

— "The Polling Imperilment," American Prospect, Sept 25, 2024.

— "The Election Story Nobody Wants to Talk About," American Prospect, Aug 28, 2024.

— "Project 2025 … and 1921, and 1973, and 1981," American Prospect, Jul 10, 2024.

W. Joseph Campbell, Lost in a Gallup: Polling Failure in U.S. Presidential Elections, (2020)

Isaac Arnsdorf, Finish What We Started: The MAGA Movement’s Ground War to End Democracy, (2023)

Phoebe Petrovic, "Right-Wing Activists Pushed False Claims About Election Fraud. Now They’re Recruiting Poll Workers in Swing States." ProPublica / Wisconsin Watch, Oct 16, 2024.

Clare Malone, "The Face of Donald Trump’s Deceptively Savvy Media Strategy," New Yorker, Mar 25, 2024.

Matthew Sitman, "Will Be Wild: Reading the January 6th Committee Report," Dissent, Apr 18, 2023.

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