The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

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199. Death, Meaning, and the Power of the Invisible World | Clay Routledge

Nov 1, 2021

Guest

Clay Routledge

In this enlightening conversation, Clay Routledge, an existential psychologist and writer, dives deep into the psychology of meaning and nostalgia. He discusses how awareness of mortality influences beliefs and behaviors, and explores Terror Management Theory's implications. Routledge shares insights on nostalgia as a comforting mechanism that fosters social connections and emotional resilience. The talk also touches on the modern quest for meaning through unconventional beliefs like UFO phenomena and the evolving role of community in an individualistic society.

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ANECDOTE

Routledge's Non-Traditional Path

Clay Routledge's high school counselor didn't think he was "college material".
He worked various jobs, including security guard and martial arts instructor, while pursuing his education.

insights

INSIGHT

9-11's Impact on Routledge

9-11 prompted Routledge to explore the psychology of belief and self-preservation.
He questioned how ideology could override the instinct for survival.

insights

INSIGHT

Mortality and Meaning-Making

Humans possess "godlike imaginative capacities" but are aware of their mortality.
This awareness motivates the creation of symbolic immortality projects, like art or community building.

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From Struggles to Insights

02:27 • 6min

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Exploring Mortality and Meaning

08:00 • 19min

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The Power of Nostalgia: Psychology and Pain

27:11 • 18min

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Nostalgia and Community Connections

45:39 • 19min

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Cognitive Differences and Worldviews: Mechanistic vs. Spiritual Perspectives

01:04:48 • 2min

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Exploring the Intersection of Meaning, Belief, and UFO Phenomena

01:06:56 • 2min

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The Intersection of Religion and Political Belief

01:09:25 • 3min

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Navigating Meaning in Modern Spirituality

01:12:10 • 23min

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Survey Insights: College Students' Views on Progress and Outlook

01:35:05 • 5min

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Balancing Utopia and Apocalypse

01:39:40 • 9min

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Ethical Leadership and the Role of Religion in Capitalism

01:48:51 • 3min

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The Quest for Meaning: Relationships and Contributions

This book delves into the concept of nostalgia, transforming it from a once-perceived disease to a valuable psychological resource. It discusses how nostalgia boosts positive psychological states such as mood, social connectedness, and self-esteem, and how it helps regulate distress. The book covers the history, triggers, and effects of nostalgia, providing insights into its role in enhancing well-being and coping with negative states.

Supernatural

Meetings With the Ancient Teachers of Mankind

Graham Hancock

In 'Supernatural', Graham Hancock explores the mysterious transition in human history when advanced skills and symbolism suddenly appeared. He delves into the world of shamanic experiences, hallucinogens like ayahuasca and DMT, and the similarities between ancient cave art and modern UFO lore. Hancock's journey takes him from the painted caves of prehistoric Europe to the Amazon rainforest, where he participates in shamanic rituals to understand the origins of human consciousness and the nature of reality. The book is underpinned by the latest scientific research and offers a provocative and fascinating exploration of human history and consciousness.

The worm at the core

Sheldon Solomon

The Worm at the Core, co-authored by Sheldon Solomon, Jeff Greenberg, and Tom Pyszczynski, delves into the profound impact of death anxiety on human actions. Drawing from extensive research, it reveals how the fear of mortality shapes our pursuit of self-esteem and cultural values, and offers insights into leading more meaningful lives. The book builds upon terror management theory, which posits that humans cope with death awareness by seeking significance and stability through cultural and personal beliefs.

The Neuropsychology of Anxiety

An Enquiry into the Functions of the Septo-Hippocampal System

Jeffrey Alan Gray

Neil McNaughton

This book presents an innovative theory of anxiety, emphasizing the role of the septo-hippocampal system in the brain. It has been updated to include new insights into anxiety and its relationship with brain function, making it a valuable resource for researchers and clinicians in psychology and neuroscience.

Why Liberalism Failed

Patrick J. Deneen

In 'Why Liberalism Failed,' Patrick J. Deneen critiques both classical liberalism (often called libertarianism) and progressive/modern liberalism. He argues that liberalism has created contradictions such as fostering material inequality despite advocating for equal rights, discouraging civic commitments in favor of privatism, and giving rise to a comprehensive state system while pursuing individual autonomy. Deneen contends that liberalism's success is generating its own failure, leading to issues like income inequality, cultural decline, atomization, and the erosion of freedoms. The book examines the outcomes of the growth of the state, the construction of the free market, and the effects of technology on freedoms and culture.

The Population Bomb

Anne H. Ehrlich

Paul Ehrlich

Published in 1968, 'The Population Bomb' by Paul and Anne Ehrlich predicts catastrophic consequences, including mass starvation and environmental ruin, due to unchecked population growth. The book argues that immediate action is necessary to control population growth to prevent these dire outcomes. Although many of the Ehrlichs' predictions did not come to pass, the book significantly raised awareness about population and environmental issues and influenced public policy in the 1960s and 1970s. The authors emphasize the need for conscious regulation of human numbers and highlight the strain that growing populations place on the natural world.

The Denial of Death

Ernest Becker

In 'The Denial of Death', Ernest Becker discusses the psychological and philosophical implications of how people and cultures react to the concept of death. He argues that human civilization is a defense mechanism against the knowledge of our mortality, and that this denial is a necessary component of functioning in the world. Becker's work challenges traditional Freudian thought by positing that the primary repression is not sexuality, but rather the awareness of death. He also explores how this fear of death leads to the creation of 'hero systems' and symbols that help individuals transcend their mortality, and how this can result in violence and conflict when different immortality projects clash.

Welcome to the Jordan B Peterson podcast season 4, episode 54. This episode was recorded on June 14th, 2021.

Dr. Clay Routledge is an existential psychologist, writer, and professor at North Dakota State University. He's also a senior research fellow at the Archbridge Institute and an editor for Profectus magazine. Dr. Routledge studies basic psychological needs and how they're shaped by family, social bonds, economics, and broader cultural worldviews. He has published over 100 scholarly papers, co-edited three books on existential psychology, and written several books, including Nostalgia: A Psychological Resource, Supernatural: Death, Meaning, and the Power of the Invisible World.

A lot of Dr. Routledge’s work - like Dr. Peterson's - focuses on the need for meaning. The two had a wide-ranging conversation about loneliness, meaning, nostalgia, Terror Management Theory, and existential psychology. They also shared views on human progress, responsibility, religion, and UFOs.

Dr. Clay Routledge Website: https://www.clayroutledge.com/

Dr. Rouledge Article on Meaning: https://www.archbridgeinstitute.org/2020/05/28/why-meaning-matters-for-freedom-and-flourishing/

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[00:00] Intro

[00:18] Jordan B. Peterson introduces guest Dr. Clay Routledge

[01:55] How Dr. Clay Routledge got into his work

[09:43] Terror Management Theory

[18:33] The resistance to Terror Management Theory

[22:01] Existential Psychology

[27:09] The psychology of nostalgia

[34:31] What elicits nostalgia

[40:36] Pain responses

[44:58] Reminiscence therapy and nostalgia

[47:47] Collective nostalgia

[54:48] Religion and its cultural impact

[01:04:03] Secularism and UFOs

[01:08:33] Politics, control, and meaning

[01:16:36] The different kinds of meaning and the freedom of restraint

[01:24:17] Filling the hole of religion

[01:28:34] Human progress

[01:32:38] Dr. Routldge's survey of American progress amongst university students and the apocalypse

[01:43:43] Meaning across different cultures

[01:48:18] Religion in free-market societies and ethical principles

[01:51:56] Dr. Routledge's qualitative taxonomy on meaning

[01:55:18] Responsibility and meaning

[02:02:12] Loneliness

[02:07:35] Dr. Routledge’s purpose with his work

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#JordanPeterson #Nostalgia #TerrorManagementTheory #Loneliness #Meaning

Visit www.jordanbpeterson.com to view more information about Jordan, his books, lectures, social media, blog posts, and more.

Jordan B. Peterson is a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto, a clinical psychologist, and the author of the multi-million copy bestseller 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos, #1 for nonfiction in 2018 in the US, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, the Netherlands, Brazil, and Norway, and slated for translation into 50 languages.

Dr. Peterson has appeared on many popular podcasts and shows, including the Joe Rogan Experience (#877, #958, #1006), The Rubin Report (12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos, Free Speech, Psychology, Gender Pronouns), H3H3 (#37), and many more. Dr. Peterson’s own podcast has focused mainly on his lecture series, covering a great deal of psychology and historical content. Jordan is expanding his current podcast from lectures to interviews with influential people around the world. We hope you enjoy this episode and more to come from Dr. Peterson in the future.

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