Join mathematician Edward Frenkel as he explores the fallacy of computationalism and determinism. Discussing the nature of reality, consciousness, and the limits of knowledge, Frenkel challenges the misconceptions of 19th-century science and advocates for updating our worldview with 21st-century paradigms. Dive into the fascination with mathematics, the illusion of free will, and the relationship between AI and human consciousness. This mind-expanding dialogue delves into quantum theory, linear time, and the celebration of AI's usefulness while embracing its challenges.
Recognizing the limitations of knowledge and understanding is crucial for a deeper understanding of our true nature and connection to nature.
Rather than viewing artificial intelligence (AI) as a threat, it should be seen as a tool that enhances creativity and encourages individuals to embrace their unique human qualities that cannot be replicated by machines.
Science should adopt a more inclusive and open-minded approach that acknowledges and values personal experiences, bridging the gap between scientific knowledge and the subjective first-person perspective.
Deep dives
Challenging the Dogma of Separation
The speaker questions the prevalent dogma in science that promotes the idea of humans as separate individuals. They argue that this belief stems from a misunderstanding of modern science, particularly in quantum mechanics and quantum field theory. The speaker emphasizes the importance of recognizing the first-person perspective and the limitations of knowledge and understanding. They suggest that science should be a tool for remembering our true nature and our connection to nature, rather than reinforcing the idea of separation.
Reevaluating AI and Human Creativity
The speaker addresses concerns about artificial intelligence (AI) and its potential to replace or surpass human capabilities. They argue that instead of viewing AI as a threat, humans should see it as a tool for enhancing creativity. They compare AI to the invention of photography, which challenged artists to explore new possibilities. The speaker encourages individuals to embrace their unique human qualities, such as imagination and creativity, that cannot be replicated by machines.
Lived Experiences and First-Person Perspectives
Highlighting personal experiences, the speaker supports the idea that science should acknowledge and value lived experiences. They share examples of individuals who have had extraordinary experiences, such as being in two places at once, which challenge conventional notions of reality. The speaker emphasizes the need to respect and trust our own first-person perspectives, even if they are difficult to objectively prove. They suggest that a more inclusive and open-minded approach to science can help bridge the gap between scientific knowledge and personal experiences.
The Assumption of Determinism and Lack of Free Will
The podcast episode discusses the assumption of determinism and the denial of free will put forth by neurobiologist Robert Sapolsky in his book 'The Tournament'. Sapolsky argues that everything in life is deterministic, suggesting that there is no free will and that living organisms are mere biological machines. However, the validity of the assumption that consciousness originates solely from the brain is questioned, with evidence suggesting that the standard model of neuroscience may be incomplete. The idea of denying free will leads to a reinforcement of separation, limiting one's sense of connectedness and freedom.
Conflicting Perspectives on Consciousness and Causality
The podcast episode explores the debate surrounding consciousness and causality. It challenges the idea that consciousness arises solely from brain activity, proposing alternative interpretations. While some adopt a materialist perspective, suggesting that consciousness is determined by neural processes, others argue for a perspective rooted in non-duality, positing that consciousness is cosmic and unlimited. The discussion addresses the limitations of causality within the context of Einstein's special relativity, highlighting that sequential cause and effect may be illusory. It emphasizes the importance of considering diverse perspectives and not imposing personal beliefs as scientific facts.
Join us for a conversation with Edward Frenkel, mathematician, Berkeley professor and author of the international bestseller Love and Math, as we explore the nature of reality and the fallacy of the naive ideas of determinism and computationalism. Drawing on the landmark achievements of modern mathematics and quantum physics, Frenkel makes the case that consciousness is not computational, that intuition and imagination cannot be captured by algorithms.
A regular presenter at the SAND conferences, Frenkel has long argued that the debate about the capabilities and dangers of artificial intelligence can be traced to the question “Who am I?” Hence it creates an opportunity for us to go deeper on the path of self-inquiry. To facilitate this process, it is essential to let go of the misconceptions of the science of the 19th century and to update our worldview with the paradigms of the science of the 21st century. A mind-expanding dialogue about the Infinite nature of consciousness, limits of knowledge, and the alchemy of transformation.
Edward Frenkel is a professor of mathematics at University of California, Berkeley, member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and winner of the Weyl Prize in Mathematical Physics. He is the author of the international bestseller Love and Math which has been published in 19 languages.
