TCC Podcast #63: Learning the stuff that isn’t written down with Margo Aaron

This one is a bit of a holiday gift for you all... so many good ideas and a fantastic guest! For the 63rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with Margo Aaron, a copywriter and psychological researcher with an impressive range of experience and know-how. During our conversation, Margo shared: •  how she went from academic researcher to copywriter •  the importance of psychology in copywriting (and life) •  why you need to listen to people don’t say in addition to what they do say •  what to ask for to get good feedback •  how copywriters can use the skill of listening and use it to their advantage •  how she built a business that she hated—and stopped taking clients •  Product Founder Fit—what it is and why it’s important •  how to learn the stuff that isn’t written down •  why we are all so scarred of breaking the copywriting rules •  what copywriters do that drive her crazy •  where the money is in marketing (the answer isn’t your list) We also asked her about what goes on in the altMBA, but while most of the content and assignments are secret, she shares just enough to whet our appetites. She also talks a bit about how to write an email that people actually want to read, the future of copywriting—it will become more important than ever—and a few strategies for communicating more clearly with your clients. Want to hear it (or read it)? Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Margo’s website Honest Selling Secrets for a Dishonest Man The Arena Work Week Lunch Jeff Walker altMBA Hillary’s Post on What’s Not Working @margoarron Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode sixty three as we chat with psychological researcher, strategic planner and copywriter Margo Aaron, about changing the world and making a profit, what copywriter’s absolutely must know about psychology, what it’s like to hang out with Seth Godin in his altMBA program and how to learn the stuff that isn’t written down. Kira: Welcome, Margo! Rob: Welcome. Margo: Thanks you guys, happy to be here. Kira: Great to have you here! Rob: We are so excited! Kira: I secretly want to be friends with you, so by the end of this need to be friends. Margo: I’m in. I’m in. Kira: When are we getting coffee? Or tequila? Rob: Margo, you came to our attention because somebody posted your website in The Copywriter Club Facebook group and immediately there were like forty comments about how great your website was. And literally within a couple minutes people were saying we’ve got to have Margo on the podcast! Got to have Margo on the podcast! So we reached out and made it happen. Tell us how you got to the point where everybody wants to know about you! Where did you come from? Margo: (laughs) Honestly, when you find that out let me know. I have you all deceived! The short version is I sort of fell into marketing and copywriting by accident. I started my career as you said as a psychological researcher: I was working in a lab for depression-anxiety patients and you guys, had I known then what I know now the amount of people we could have helped—you can’t even imagine. I didn’t know it at the time but it was kind of my first introduction to funnels because I was the person on the phone... like, I was in charge of what’s called recruitment and screening so it’s effectively tofu and mofu, like I have to get people in the door and then I had to qualify them for different studies and around that time I realised how there ...