BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and her superpower co-host, Lau Lapides, dive into the non-negotiable reality of voiceover demo production. The bosses address why many voice actors—especially those starting out—try to cut corners on their demos, despite the demo being the primary portfolio piece used to land agents and get work. This episode provides essential, current advice on what makes a demo effective, what red flags to avoid, and how to manage the realistic expectations of investing in a long-term voice acting career.
00:03 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne Ganguzza here. Are you ready to find your life purpose and live a happier, more fulfilling life? My coaching services can help you discover your true passions and align them with your goals. Let's start that journey today. Visit anneganguzza.com for more information.
00:31 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.
00:45 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the lovely Miss Lala Pita. Hey, we're back, and better than ever. Annie, I'm so glad to be back with you. We are back. Ah Lala, it's been a week, oh my gosh, it's been a week.
01:06 It's been kind of a crazy year so far, hasn't it? It has, I mean, it's just been a little chaotic. I've dealt with a lot of students recently who come to me that want coaching, but before they want to get coaching, they want me to listen to their demos, and so I'll have a quick listen. I mean, I do an actual, I have an actual like process where, if you want half an hour of my time, I'll actually evaluate your demo spot by spot and give you tips. And I like the fact that I offer it as a service because I don't want people to think I'm just here to sell them demos.
01:42 Yeah, of course, but I listen to a lot of demos that are self-produced and demos that have no production under them, and then demos that have a lot of production under them. And you know, I know it's a topic that you know we tend to talk about quite a bit, all about demos. But demos are just so darn important because it really is the product by which you get hired a lot of times. I mean, in addition to auditions, of course, you know, because the client always wants to hear you know your voice with their brand, but really to get your foot in the door. In a lot of places, that demo that showcases what your voice sounds like in the genre in which you want to work is so important. And it's interesting how many times I'll talk to a student who wants to kind of cut the corners on that and they don't have the money. And yet the demos that I'm hearing are not doing them any favors and not getting them any work. Right.
02:39 - Lau (Host) And there's so many tips you and I could like give about the do's and don'ts of demos, but I think it changed, like what's trending now and the faux pas that are happening are happening, that are a little bit newer these days and it's good to talk about and especially.
02:55 - Anne (Host) I like your angle from—I have my angle from the non-broadcast side and I want to hear your angle from the broadcast side. How much are demos being used to cast people? How much do the demos count when you're listening to that in comparison to the auditions? Talk to me about the casting process and how often are demos being used for that? That's a great question. That's a great question.
03:20 - Lau (Host) You know, the anecdote that I come up with is, or the analogy I come up with is, reminds me of college. College was always a necessity for people who are going into white collar careers. Ok, nowadays it's a little bit different.
03:36 - Anne (Host) Do you?
03:37 - Lau (Host) need a college degree to go into many careers. Maybe not, probably not, but when you earn a college degree, oftentimes it says to an employer that you've gone to the highest level of due diligence in your education and that, to me, oftentimes, is what demos represent. Sometimes you literally don't need demos, like literally, we won't be submitting your demo to a client On the most literal basis, I will not be sending your client 98% of the time to our clients, but it shows us that you are a working, professional, high-level industry talent. So there's a screening.
04:13 - Anne (Host) And that you take your career seriously. I think you take your investment seriously.
04:17 - Lau (Host) There's a screening to that it's a portfolio piece, sure. So I would say, yes, you do need it, but no, you do not need it for every single individual job that comes through, because they're going to be demo reads on the scripts.
04:30 - Anne (Host) Now I'm going to counter that, because you are speaking from the broadcast sense of the word. Typically, because you cast a lot for commercials and broadcast style jobs. For non-broadcast, which is a lot of the industry as well, demos can sit on your website and be available 24-7. When you don't have time to audition, and that is the biggest point that I'd like to make is that if you do not have an audition, they sit on your website as a portfolio, as a demonstration of what it is that your voice sounds like, and it can be a way to get your foot in the door.
05:04 If somebody hears that demo and then they're like, oh, I like that voice, and then maybe they want you to audition or it just it allows people to kind of sample the product, sample the product before they decide if they want to hire you, and I think that it's a very valuable piece to have on a website. So if you're a talent that's going to do not I mean I don't know any talent that just does broadcast I mean maybe some it's a very tiny few that just do broadcast, but that doesn't do non-broadcast as well. So I feel like that demo as a portfolio. I remember when you used to go on job interviews and you had to have things in your portfolio.
05:44 I mean, I did when I went on job interviews.
05:46 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I had a portfolio. I did too, yes.
05:48 - Anne (Host) And this is really your portfolio and I think just like— Totally agree as anything right. Presentation is everything I'm all about. Presentation, yeah, Do you know what I mean? I do? Presentation in marketing, presentation in the way you dress, presentation where you present yourself to people. I think presentation for your product is important and that is your demo.
06:11 - Lau (Host) And thank you for qualifying that, because I was speaking from a commercial mindset and it is great to have it on your website. You really should have those on your website because you're going to get private clients, you're going to get audiobook clients, you're going to get all sorts of potential clients that need to hear samples of your work. In my world, every day I will ask for submissions, commercial demo submissions for the agency but how much we're actually using them in-house once we've accepted you into the agency?
06:43 - Anne (Host) is getting minimal. But you need one to get into the agency. Is that correct? For the most part, yeah, you do.
06:49 - Lau (Host) You do because otherwise we would just have you do random reads which we want to hear produced reads. So it makes sense to absolutely have that commercial demo. But be careful, like and we'll talk about that some of the tips about like what is in that that is working on your behalf and what is working against you.
07:08 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah.
07:09 Right, I mean, there, you know I'm going to say, first of all, anything that is not produced right. First of all, I mean we can talk the DIY. I mean the DIY is not typically produced because, again, you need, like, if you're going to put music under it, sound effects, you need a license for that to be, you know, to legally. You know, put something on your website and I feel like, if it's not produced, then it kind of tells people that you're just there in your home studio with a mic and you didn't want to put any sound effects or music under it, and so therefore, it's kind of like a half-finished product to me. Yes, and yes, it showcases your voice, but it also showcases that maybe you could be a hobbyist or that you are not making the investment to create a produced sample, which I think is important because, again, you know, it's everything. I mean the client needs to hear what your voice will sound like in a fully produced spot, I believe that I agree, and you know what I do.
08:06 - Lau (Host) When we're looking at bringing new talent, I typically make a habit of saying who produced your demo?
08:11 Now, a lot of agents won't ask that, but I do because I know the producers and I know who's who. So I'll ask them who produced your demo? That'll tell me one thing and then, well, they certainly have to send me a commercial demo. I find one of the biggest problems out there is they're sending me the wrong demo. They're sending me, say, you know, an animation demo, character demo, which I love because we're doing more animation jobs, but the bread and butter is still the commercial for most of us. And so you have to really target, like who are you sending your portfolio to and who are their clients, what kind of work do they represent? And send them the right demo, send them the most appropriate demo. Don't assume oh, I have four other demos, is that good enough?
08:52 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, I mean like a corporate demo.
08:55 You're like you need a commercial demo first and foremost because that's where you as an agent make your money right In the broadcast, but non-broadcast but it's not to say that your agent won't hire you for a corporate job.
09:11 It's nice to have that corporate demo. I'm going to say that the rest of the demos outside of your commercial demo or anything that's broadcast like promo or animation, even to have those non-broadcast demos is also equally as important to have on your website and to also deliver to your agent as a secondary demo, because you know they want to see that you can be versatile and you're not just a one-trick pony, uh, sort of deal, and and those demos should be should be produced properly. Basically, I'll tell you, though produced properly just as important to have a produced, even though e-learning I have people that will say to me yeah, but e-learning, you don't typically have music under e-learning. I'm have people that will say to me yeah, but e-learning, you don't typically have music under e-learning. I'm like, look, it's not about that for your demo, it's about the presentation it's about. I would much rather hear your voice in an e-learning module with a little bit of music underneath it because it helps.
09:55 It's like putting lipstick on it's just saying right, it finishes it off, it creates a nice sound and there are a lot of e-learning believe it finishes it off, it creates a nice sound, and there are a lot of e-learning believe it or not modules that do have music under them, even though a lot of them won't.
10:10 - Lau (Host) But I'll tell you what blows me away.
10:11 - Anne (Host) Medical, the same thing. Medical is the same thing. I'll tell you what blows me away, though.
10:16 - Lau (Host) How many talent we have submit to the agency for acceptance that don't have commercial demos.
10:30 - Anne (Host) And.
10:30 - Lau (Host) I say you know, I appreciate you sending me other demos, but where's your commercial demo? And they say oh, I'm saving up for it and I'm planning it next year.
10:33 And I'm like, well, then come back to me then, yeah, yeah, because that's what I need to hear. That's how specific we get in terms of having you understand what a commercial delivery is. We need to know that you understand and that you're making the investment in it as well. I think that that's really, really important. You know, one of the big sort of mistakes that I've heard recently and we've been talking about this forever, but it's been a real problem recently I was involved with a corporate casting just the other day and within the agency now these are the talent that are accepted within the agency I'm getting demo after demo, commercial demo, because they were asking for commercial demos.
11:11 They weren't even asking for reads on the script yet and, as I remembered them, I had to listen to the first like 10 seconds of the demo. They were so hyped, pitchy, selly, like over the top, wild crazy. You know big car sales and I'm thinking to myself Most of the stuff we do is really not that. Yeah. Yeah, it's much more of an earthy delivery, much more of a real delivery, and a lot of them got ditched in terms of not being submitted, just because of that it amazes me that demo producers, I think that you know.
11:45 - Anne (Host) Then you're shopping around for a demo producer. I think your demo producer needs to be current and relevant. And so when you're shopping for a producer for your demo, that you listen to other demos that are produced by them and hopefully you've done your homework beforehand and listen, like if you're going to get a commercial demo, listen to what commercials are out there lately, and not, I mean, even on the radio, right where I think radio is a little bit more dynamic, a little more, you know, focused on the voice, because there's no media outside of music behind it. I feel like you can be a little bit more dynamic with your acting, but even then it's not so high-pitched. And yeah, the car ads, yes, some of them are.
12:28 - Lau (Host) And the sound effects. Like I don't know if talent realized. We don't want to hear tons of sound effects in your first read or two. You want to hear it. So one more thing, annie, I just want to mention. I forgot to mention it earlier. When they're submitting to the agency, if I like them or their demo, I'll say, hey, can you submit me a couple raw reads?
12:46 - Anne (Host) I want totally raw reads and typically they love that you can gauge their studio that way. Absolutely.
12:54 - Lau (Host) And their voice. Like is that their voice? Was anything overly processed or overly?
12:59 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I think that's so important because you don't want to have the demo and that's, I think, that probably a lot of agents, if they don't ask for that, they'll know in a matter of like a couple of auditions whether or not you have the acting chops to be able to back up what you had on your demo or what might've been directed right for you on the demo. And we've talked about that a lot of times, and Cliff Zellman is famous for saying a demo is a promise, a demo is a promise, and so when you submit, a demo to someone.
13:27 you want to make sure that you can back that up, that you can produce that same sort of delivery. Maybe not You're not an audio engineer and you probably don't have a bank of music and you don't have a bed of music or sound effects but you need to be able to put that delivery to the test. Someone just sent me one of my talents.
13:45 - Lau (Host) He's so great. He just sent me a monster demo in honor of Halloween and it was so great and I said his name is Michael.
13:52 I said Michael, I'm just curious how much of this is processed. He said Lau, none of it. This is my voice. I was so impressed by that. I mean, I was like so impressed because once in a while we'll have an animation that comes through Actually more and more so now than last year and they'll look for those kinds of characters, they'll look for those kinds of sound effects, they'll look for that stuff. And just knowing he can produce that without overly being produced in a studio, just his voice is just really incredible. So I would say, put your natural stuff up front for a commercial agency, like, go as natural and real and authentic as you can up front and then do your high-pitchy stuff later in the demo.
14:34 - Anne (Host) Well, do that in a character demo, or do that in an animation demo, or do that or put it towards the end. In a demo that yeah put it in a demo, like you just told. Now see, I don't want, I don't want the bosses to get confused because you just talked about a monster demo, so monster demo is going to be different than a commercial demo.
14:50 Right, I demo. Right, I mean you're talking about, like I mean, a commercial demo. You would want to hear what it sounds like with the music underneath it. However, I think you have to be careful that you don't have something that's way overproduced and there will be some demo producers that might do that and so I think that you have to really listen with a critical ear. If you're you know. If you're shopping around for a demo producer, what do they do? What have they done recently? And sometimes it's hard when you're first starting out in voiceover because you don't know what a good demo sounds like and hopefully you know. If you've done your research on the Internet, you've heard examples of good demos versus maybe not so good demos.
15:34 And I'm like just because a demo exists doesn't mean it's a good one.
15:37 - Lau (Host) No, of course not, and I'm glad you brought that up too, because I have been really annoyed by overproduced sound effects, like, sometimes I feel like the producers, the audio engineers, the demo producers are showing off. And why do I say that? Number one, I don't need to hear a sound effect in every moment, in between words or sentences. I don't want that at all. The other thing I don't want is oh, I almost lost my train of thought.
16:04 - Anne (Host) Don't detract from the voice with the production of it.
16:07 - Lau (Host) Oh, I know what, it is Too long. So the demo producers are either, as you said, they're archaic and they don't know what they're doing and they're from 1962, or they're showing off because it's 90 seconds, it's two minutes, it's 2.15. And I'm like I'm not listening to that.
16:25 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Who's going?
16:25 - Anne (Host) to listen to that right, but the producers are showing off. That's too long for a commercial demo.
16:31 - Lau (Host) Absolutely Way too long, way too long.
16:33 - Anne (Host) So I'm thinking today Not too long for a non-broadcast narration, though, like a minute and a half to two minutes that's. That's normal, of course not.
16:39 - Lau (Host) No, of course not, and so I would say the one another thing I see is sounding like one long read, the whole thing lacking variety, lacking change Range, and that's to me in the coaching in the direction. It's like understanding. It just can't be about the sound effects. It has to be authentically about the voice actor being able to internally shift the mood and a variety of styles too.
17:05 - Anne (Host) I hear a lot of demos with a lot of like first person dialogues in them and to me that the first person dialogue to me is kind of a kind of a cheat, because if you're going to produce because if you're going to produce somebody before they're really ready, because not every commercial is a first-person dialogue.
17:23 It's not like hey, I just went to John Camp Ford and it's not all a dialogue. There's a lot of more third-person, second-person, and so if your demo is not demonstrating that and me as a casting person, I think you also love that A lot of times demo producers will throw those first person reads in there. Like the whole demo will be a first person read and I'm like, well, that's not really showcasing the entire range of acting that I would need for a national commercial, which is not all. You're not on camera actor there. Typically it's not always first person, it's like you're talking about a pharmaceutical in the third person. So how do you sound in that? So your demo has to have the styles that are out there now and not just one style and that one style right, that first person dialogue may show a lot of characters that you can do and it can show a range of emotion, but it doesn't show your acting in something that's not written in that style.
18:19 - Lau (Host) Good point, yeah, totally good point. And what about what's, as you're saying, what's trending out there now, like I'm really tired of hearing about, you know, maybelline, mascara or Lexus, if I hear another read with some of the same products over and over again or Dove chocolate it's kind of like guys.
18:38 I know that you didn't do those commercials because I recognize the script from the online library that a million people have. So, being very careful, you don't need to have a real job on your demo. You can have studio reads, that's fine, but it has to be updated, thought out in terms of what are the trends of today, like, maybe we don't eat as much chocolate, maybe we're having, you know, sugar-free chocolate, maybe it's, you know, I don't know whatever it is, but what is trending today and what makes you sound relevant to being a working talent today versus something from five or 10 or 15 years ago?
19:16 - Anne (Host) It's so interesting that you were talking about the L'Oreal makeup read, which is, it's always that one sound, that kind of, you know that sexy kind of L'Oreal Maybelline, and so what's interesting is how has that trend changed, right? Has it changed? Are there now more or maybe different brands that are out there that are not using that particular sound? I just because I know you referenced Dove chocolate and so I was just referencing the makeup commercials as well, right, which really took a long time for them to change, and now they're slowly changing Totally.
19:49 Now they're changing, so I don't need to hear that typical read of that promo-y sound. That's right, it's nice to hear something that's different, that is relevant for today, I mean, and you know how I know a change is occurring.
20:04 - Lau (Host) It's what we said in the last podcast that we just recorded. It's about reading your specs. So, for instance, we just got specs in for a corporate audition. For instance, we just got specs in for a corporate audition and in there, as we're reading it as the agents, it says no vocal fry, please. What does that tell me? They don't care about your voice. They could care less about you. It's about that delivery of like hi, I'm talking about finance. Now I'm on a vocal fry. I can't even do it, but I'm on a vocal fry. They don't want that anymore. They want more real people, and more real people do not speak on a vocal fry, yeah.
20:42 - Anne (Host) And more real people. Right, I will say. I will say, more real young people do talk a little bit with upspeak and so that is a trend that we got. I I've been. You know I'm traditionally against that, but again, I'm doing a lot of non-broadcast narration stuff and I feel like, if you can't use upspeak yet, because even even younger people, when I, when I've I've done a lot of research in the corporate world when they're speaking publicly about their product is there's not upspeak, they're more authoritative and that, yeah, it's very interesting because, you know, I'll let it happen once in a while in a script, because if the voice is young, it's a natural occurrence and a natural tendency. But if you're in your 50s and you do upspeak, I'm not, no, it's generational, it's generational.
21:29 We don't tend to do that and you might hang out and you might have kids, you might have kids, you might have kids. That's up speak. And then that kind of affected you. However, when you're delivering a commercial on I don't know, depends Up speak. It just doesn't belong there, it just doesn't. It just doesn't so, it doesn't belong with the demo. So, understand the styles and the trends, and that's something that anybody can do for free by simply watching commercials, by simply surfing the internet and looking at corporate you know, corporate videos and there's any genre looking at animation. I mean really just study and listen to what the voices are.
22:04 - Lau (Host) I got another tip. Yeah, I got another tip about that. Gone are the days where we used to have completely separate demos for English and then another language. Now you can certainly do that and that's great, but you don't have to. If you're making a commercial demo, I love a bilingual demo or a trilingual demo. So if you speak more than one language, I need to know what it is. If you do authentic accents, I need to know what it is.
22:25 - Anne (Host) I'll even put it on a corporate demo or a medical demo because I'll put and what I'll do is maybe I'll do a dialogue spot that has you'll be talking to the younger son in English, but then you'll turn to the father, who doesn't speak English and only speak Spanish, and then have the rest of the conversation in Spanish, and that spot alone showcases that this talent is bilingual and so that works. So not just for commercial but also for non-broadcast, absolutely.
22:53 - Lau (Host) Yeah, and we're in a global world, so I know you know that ad campaign. Thank you, captain Obvious. You know that was at Travelocity or something, kayak or something. I feel like it's this one. I talk to talent. It's like Not only put your best suit forward, and forward first, but do the things that you would be cast in Like. Don't do stretch pieces, don't do like if I'm 35, don't try to do a 70-year-old piece.
23:22 - Anne (Host) Don't do that. I'm saying if you're like in your 50s, don't do a millennial read on your commercial demo.
23:29 Because, first of all, it doesn't fit. I think we were talking about this on the last podcast. It's like I don't audition for 20-something voices, even though I have a younger voice, because it's not just about the voice and the sound of it, it's about the style and it's about the authenticity of it as well. Right, which is we understand why we want authentic voices. Right, it makes sense that your life experience dictates the style and the tone and the gravitas and the subtext and the acting that goes into delivering a message.
24:01 - Lau (Host) Save it for your character demo if it's appropriate, yeah, and your coach will help you to see. If it's appropriate, put it on your character demo, right, because we're back to having adults doing kids' voices. Now for character work we are. So you know you got to keep your finger on the trends, keep your finger on the pulse of what's happening in the industry and what's going on and reflect the work that you would actually do and be cast in.
24:25 - Anne (Host) Adults doing kids' work is. There's a lot of times that tends to make it easier with the legal aspects of things. Is that not correct? Yeah?
24:34 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It does.
24:34 - Anne (Host) So, like an adult, can work longer, can work different hours, and that also translates to on-camera as well, right Lau? Yeah, though I'll tell you we don't have as many problems in the voiceover world because the jobs tend to be quicker.
24:46 - Lau (Host) Oh, yeah, unless they're running a recurring character. They tend to be quicker.
24:58 - Anne (Host) It's more the on-camera stuff. Yeah, right, that's much harder, so we'll do 18 to play 12 or 19 to play 14, because of all the laws involved with education. Well, that's the way it's been for such a long time, right, yeah, forever, forever and ever, yeah, forever. And on camera, absolutely.
25:05 - Lau (Host) But, as you said, like you do your due diligence, you do your homework. We have to do our homework too, all the time about our industry, what's cooking, what's happening, what are the jobs in the genre we want to be going out for, and that should be reflected on your demo, not the old read from you know, the old announcer read from 1991. Right and I'm getting.
25:30 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in addition to all that right, what should be on the demo? I just have an increasing number of people who are like, well, I can't afford my demo but or I can't afford, well, I can't afford the training, but I want to get a demo so I can start working. So it's kind of like what came first, the chicken or the egg. It it's tough because you really need the training so that you can execute and deliver the spots on your demo. That will get you the work. And so if I'm a demo producer, that's just going to direct you into those reads. By the time you get into your own studio you're not going to be able to recreate them.
26:08 - Lau (Host) And we've covered this in numerous episodes of VO Boss in that like don't come in with desperation, don't come in with no capital, don't come in at a deficit. Come in where you've got a little bit of abundance and say I want to get the most effective portfolio product that represents me, because I know I'm going to get a return on this over time if it is industry standard and represents me well, if I DIY it, you get what you pay for.
26:35 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly, and you know, I do have a number of students as well who say that I'm saving up for a demo, but I want to start working and so I want to get an agent. And what most people don't understand this is slightly off topic but kind of in a parallel path Most people that come into this industry not understanding that an agent primarily deals in broadcast. So you can have an e-learning demo, but you're not going to get an agent with that. You need to have a commercial demo or whatever the agent specializes in for the most part, any type of broadcast. So you can't just you have to have a great demo, a great commercial demo, to land an agent, and then, once you have an agent, that's not going to be 100% of your work, or nor should it be 100% of your work.
27:18 And so most people are like well, I'm going to direct market and I'm like, do you know how hard it is to direct market? And I'm not saying that you should, because most people right now are saying nay to the pay to plays, right, because it's like, oh, I don't like this pay to play. I feel like they're taking my money, it's hard, I can't get a job, but also you need to, you need to present yourself with opportunities and so, yes, direct marketing is great, but that's also, that is also a path that doesn't happen overnight. Direct marketing. It is very much a timing issue with direct marketing and it's going to be.
27:48 It's a marathon, not a sprint, and that can make people kind of put off and you know they're going to be frustrated, they're not going to be able to get work right away, and that's, I think, that cycle that most new people coming into the industry they go through. They have that cycle where they can't afford, like they have that illusion in their head that it's just talking behind a mic and it doesn't require a lot of work and so therefore, they can create their own demo so they can save some money and then they can start getting work right away. And unfortunately, that's just not how typically the industry works.
28:24 - Lau (Host) No, it's not.
28:24 They're going to have to adjust and really manage those unrealistic expectations those unrealistic expectations, because I'm quite certain that many, many students around the world who are going into programs to be an accountant, a doctor, a lawyer, are not coming in with tremendous amounts of money, but they have to be resourceful to figure out how to get their education so that they can train and get an internship and work their way up. And it's the same with us. We're just on a tighter timeline. We don't need to go through four years of school or eight years of college necessarily, and that's a great point.
28:56 It's a great point Most people.
28:58 - Anne (Host) they think there's no time involved. So it's like that's right, but there is some time involved. I mean, there is some training involved. But yeah, I think what a great discussion Again. Yet another discussion on demos. What a great discussion again, yet another discussion on demos. But, guys, hopefully it's one that's current and relevant now for you, those of you out there that are really thinking about getting into this career just reiterating how important your demo is in order to help you to move forward and have a career and get work broadcast, non-broadcast, whatever genre.
29:30 - Lau (Host) Yes, yes.
29:32 - Anne (Host) Fantastic. Thank you, Lau, for having this lovely conversation. I loved it. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and be like bosses and boss superpowers like Lau and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, see you next week.
29:54 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPD TL.