We Need a Fat Bechdel Test

Welcome to Indulgence Gospel After Dark!

We are Corinne Fay and Virginia Sole-Smith.

These episodes are usually just for our Extra Butter membership tier — but today we’re releasing this one to the whole list. So enjoy! (And if you love it, go paid so you don’t miss the next one!)

Episode 212 Transcript

Corinne

Today is a family meeting episode. We’re catching up on summer breaks, back to school, and a whole bunch of diet culture news stories that we’ve been wanting to discuss with you all.

Virginia

We’re also remembering how to make a podcast, because we haven’t recorded together in like six weeks. And it didn’t start off great. But I think we’re ready to go now.

Corinne

Someone definitely said, “What day is it?”

Virginia

It’s hard coming out of summer mode. I don’t know if you feel that because you don’t have kids, during back to school, but it is a culture shift.

Corinne

I don’t think I feel the back to school thing as much, but I’m still in Maine, and it’s actively fall. It’s actively getting cold, and I’m just like, what is happening? I feel this pressure to do something, but I’m not sure what? Hibernate?

Virginia

“Should I buy a notebook? Should I be wearing fleece? I could go either way.” I don’t know. It’s weird. It is the start of fall. So we are moving into fall mindset. But like, don’t rush me, you know? The dahlias bloom till first frost. That’s my summer.

Corinne

Summer is so brief.

Virginia

I’m having a lot of clothing feelings right now. I am not in a good place getting dressed, and it is for sure weather related, shoulder season-related. I’m in my annual conundrum of when do the Birkenstocks go away? When must our toes be covered for polite society? Am I showing arms? I just I don’t even know how to get dressed. I hate all my clothes. Everything’s terrible.

Corinne

I think this is part of what I’m feeling. I don’t have enough warm clothes and I also don’t want to buy another pair of sweatpants.

Virginia

And you’re traveling. So you’re like, “I have warm clothes at home.” Didn’t bring them because you didn’t understand, even though you grew up in Maine and should remember that fall starts quite early there.

Corinne

I need to get it tattooed on my body. Bring a sweater, bring sweatpants.

Virginia

Well, to be fair for this Maine trip, you were really focused on your sister’s wedding. You had your nephew. You’ve had a lot going on.

Corinne

I was very focused on August, and really not thinking about September.

Virginia

Will we even exist after? I mean, that’s how it always is when you’re gearing up for a big event, the post-event doesn’t exist.

And I don’t know if you do the thing where you’re like, well, I can deal with that after the big event. And then suddenly it’s after the big event. You’re like, well, now there’s 47 things I need to deal with.

Corinne

I absolutely do that. Now I’m like, wait. How and when do I get back to New Mexico? Am I going back to New Mexico ever? In which case maybe I do need to buy sweatpants?

Virginia

It’s so hard. Even without a wedding —I feel like all summer, because I have pretty skeleton childcare and I’m wanting to take time off, and it’s a privilege that our job allows some flexibility like that, so when I get requests to, like, do a podcast, do a special thing. I’m like, “Talk to me in September. I can’t do it this summer. Summer mode Virginia can’t do anything extra!”

And now I’ve just spent the week saying no to lots of things, because September me can’t do it either. That was folly. I should have just said no the first time!

That’s one of those life lessons I’m always relearning that’s really funny. If it’s not an instant yes, it’s a no. And I so often fall into the trap of it’s not an instant yes, so let me kick that can down the curb a little bit, and then then I feel ruder because they come back and I’m like, no, I’m sorry. Actually, we were never going to do that.

Corinne

As someone who’s been on the other side of that where, like, I’ll reach out to someone for the Style Questionnaire, and they’ll be like, “Oh, can you ask me in two months?” And then when I reach out in two months, and they’re like, “No.”

Virginia

Totally. I’m on the other side of it all the time when we’re booking podcast guests. So I’m completely aware of how shitty it feels. So I have a resolution. Summer Virginia just has to say no to things and not push it to Fall Virginia. Everyone hold me accountable next summer, because I’m so sorry to everybody I’ve said no to this week, but September is a real intense parenting month. There are just a lot of moving parts.I get 62 emails a day from the school. The middle school just announced back to school night will be tomorrow. They told us yesterday!

One cool thing is, my older kid is in seventh grade now, so I no longer have to scramble for babysitters, which is a real achievement unlocked. Although she’s going to realize at some point that she should increase her rates with me.

Corinne

Oh, you pay her!

Virginia

For stuff where I’m going to be out of the house and need her to put her sister to bed. It’s one thing, if I’m like, “I’m going to the store, you guys don’t want to come.” Fine. You can doodle around at home. And it’s not even really babysitting. She’s going to ignore her the whole time. But I’m going to be out from 6 to 8pm tomorrow night. I need her to actually make sure her younger sibling gets in pajamas and brushes teeth and, moves towards bed. I’m not expecting them to be in bed when I get home, but I would like them to not be nowhere close.

Corinne

That’s really sweet.

Virginia

Plus we have some big stuff in the works for both Burnt Toast and Big Undies, which we cannot discuss just yet. Yes, I am actively teasing it for you all.

Corinne

You’re going to bring that up now?! I feel like we should mention it at the end.

Virginia

I think we can mention it whenever we feel like? I think they’re probably like, “Why are they both doing reader surveys? What’s going on?” And we can’t say yet, but there’s something going on, and it’s also requiring a lot of our time and attention.

Corinne

We’re really busy. But I think it’s going to be really good, and everyone’s going to love it.

Virginia

In the meantime, though: What are we wearing? Real talk, what are we wearing to get through this weird it’s not summer, it’s not fall, it’s some hybrid state. Are you still wearing open toed shoes? Sandals?

Corinne

No, I’m not.

Virginia

Okay. Should I stop, too?

Corinne

I mean, I’m only not because I’m cold. It depends on if you’re cold. I also think now is kind of the perfect time for socks with sandals.

Virginia

Most of my sandals are something between my toes style.

Corinne

Oh, I was thinking, like, socks with Birkenstocks.

Virginia

Ah! I do have some of the two strap Birkenstocks, and I don’t tend to wear them a lot in summer. Maybe I should experiment!

Corinne

I feel like, when you wear socks with the two strap Birkenstocks, they become really cozy.

Virginia

I don’t wear them a lot in summer because I don’t have particularly wide feet, and they’re a little wide on me. But the sock would solve for that! And they would be cozy… all right, I’m going to experiment with this, as part of my shoulder season style.

Corinne

I’m still figuring out my fall must haves, which is one of my favorite topics. Although I will say I feel like this year I’ve seen a lot of people posting like, “I don’t want to hear about back to school, or I don’t want to hear about fall fashion.”

Virginia

I have terrible news for people about this podcast.

Corinne

I feel it’s very light hearted. It could be literally anything like, who cares? We are entering fall, so…

Virginia

Time is passing.

Corinne

I am getting cold. I do want to put on socks with my sandals and sweatshirts.

Virginia

Trigger warning for anyone who is not available for a fall fashion conversation.

Corinne

Maybe by the time this comes out, people will be ready.

I know this is like florals for spring, but I’m feeling for fall… brown pants.

Virginia

Wait, what? You’re blowing my mind? You’ve been feeling brown for a little while.

Corinne

Brown has been ramping up. I’m wearing brown pants right now.

Virginia

Is it one of your colors, as a true spring?

Corinne

Well, I do think there are definitely some camels. And I think brown is preferable to black. So I’m thinking brown pants instead of black pants.

Virginia

Oh, I don’t even know what I’m thinking about pants. I’m thinking frustration with pants. I have my one pair of jeans that I reliably wear. I think I need to order another pair in case they stop making them. I’m at a scarcity mindset point with those Gap jeans. I mean, they aren’t going to stop making them. They’ve had them for years, but I just feel like I need an insurance policy.

Corinne

Do you fit other Gap pants, or just the jeans?

Virginia

I only buy that one pair of jeans. I mean, I generally try not to shop at the Gap because they do not have a plus size section.

Corinne

But they do have some really cute stuff.

Virginia

It’s gross though! Make it bigger.

Corinne

If it fits you, maybe you should buy it.

Virginia

Corinne is like, “Or counterpoint, don’t take a stand.”

Corinne

I’m always sending links to my straight-size sister for stuff at the Gap that I think she should buy.

Virginia

They do have some really cute stuff, but it infuriates me that Old Navy can make plus sizes, and Gap cannot, and Banana Republic really cannot. It’s just like, hello, class system, capitalism. It’s so revolting.

Corinne

Oh, my God. Do you know what else I’m feeling outraged about? I went thrift shopping here a couple weeks ago, and I found some vintage Land’s End that was in sizes that they don’t make anymore.

Virginia

Wow, that’s rude.

Corinne

It was a 4X! So they used to be way more 26/28 or 28/30. So they also, at some point, kind of cut back.

Virginia

They do, at least legitimately have a section called plus size, though.

Corinne

They do, but it clearly used to be bigger.

Virginia

No, no, no. I’m not saying it’s great.

I am wearing my favorite joggers a lot, because I think I’m really resisting the shift back to hard pants.

Corinne

How do you feel about trousers, like a pleated trouser kind of pant?

Virginia

Is that comfortable for working from home? A pleated trouser?

Corinne

Well, I feel like they’re comfortable because they’re kind of baggy but narrower at the bottom, you know?

Virginia

I do love a tapered ankle.

I also unpaused my Nuuly. And I did get a blue corduroy pair of pants from them that it hasn’t been quite cold enough to wear because shoulder seasons. Corduroy, to me is like a real like we are fully in cold weather fabric. And when it’s 50 in the morning, but 75 by lunchtime, am I going to be hot in corduroys? I guess I should just start wearing them and see.

Corinne

Are they jeans style?

Virginia

They’re slightly cropped so that’s another reason to wear them now, while I can still have bare ankles. They’re slightly cropped and slightly flared, and they’re like a royal blue corduroy.

They’re Pilcro, which is an Anthropologie brand and I know we feel gross about Anthropologie. But when it comes to pants, I think Corinne is saying we can’t have moral stances because pants are so hard to find. Other things, yes.

Corinne

It’s just hard.

Virginia

I’m not excited about clothes right now. I want to feel more excited. Maybe I need to think about what my fall must haves are. Maybe I need to make a pin board or something.

Corinne

I think that’s a good idea. Is there anything you’re feeling excited about? I remember the last episode you were talking about those Imbodhi pants.

Virginia

Oh yeah. They’ve really become lounge around the house pants, and they’re great, but they’re very thin. Imbodhi feels like a brand you could not wear once it gets cold.

Although, the jumpsuit I have from them in periwinkle—which does feel like a very summery color to me—I also got black. And over the summer it felt a little too black jumpsuit. It felt like too formal or something. But I’ve been enjoying it as a transition piece. I am still wearing it with sandals. I think it would look cute with maybe my Veja sneakers, though, and then layering over my denim shirt from Universal Standard, like open over it.

I’m glad we’re talking about this, because that’s what I’m going to wear to back to school night tomorrow night, which is a high pressure dressing occasion.

Corinne

I can see that.

Virginia

You don’t want to look like you tried too hard, but you also don’t want to look like you came in pajamas. Lots of yoga moms, a lot of pressure. Okay, I’m going to wear that black jumpsuit. I’m glad we talked about that. That’s been a good transition piece.

Corinne

Yeah, okay, well, speaking of transitions, I want to ask you about something else. Are you familiar with the Bechdel Test?

Virginia

Yes.

Corinne

Don’t you think we should have a Bechdel test for anti-fatness? And/or diets? Like, does this piece of culture have a fat character who’s not the bad guy, or on a weight loss journey, or being bullied for their size?

[Post-recording note: Rebecca Bodenheimer reached out after this episode aired to let us know she wrote about this exact concept for the LA Times in 2020. Read her excellent piece here!]

Virginia

Oohhh… OK, so what would our terms be? They can’t be the fat villain.

Corinne

Well, I feel like there’s one list for anti fatness, and one would be a piece of culture or whatever that doesn’t discuss dieting or weight loss. And I don’t know if it should all be one under one Bechdel test umbrella, or if it should be two different tests.

Virginia

I feel like it’s related. Wait, I need to look up the actual Bechdel Test criteria.

Corinne

It’s like, does the movie have two female characters talking about something other than a man.

Virginia

The work must feature at least two women.

They must talk to each other.

And their conversation must be about something other than a man.

I was just watching Your Friends and Neighbors, that new John Hamm show about super rich people stealing from each other, and it’s very entertaining, but it fails the Bechdel test so dramatically. It’s got Amanda Peet in it! She’s so smart and funny, and all she does is talk about her ex husband and how much she loves him. And I’m just like, fail, fail, fail.

Anyway, okay, I love this idea.

Corinne

So it’s like, does it have a fat character?

Virginia

Wait, I think it should have more than one fat character.

Corinne

That bar is too high. I feel like we have to be able to name something that passes the test. And what are we calling the test? The Burnt Toast Test?

Virginia

We can workshop names in the comments.

Corinne

We need a famous fat person to name it after, maybe.

Virginia

Well, I guess Allison Bechdel named it after herself. So it could be the Fay test, because you did this. The Corinne Fay test.

Corinne

Oh, God.

So it has to have one fat character, they have to talk about something other than weight loss, and they can’t be the villain.

Virginia

I would like them not to be the sidekick, too. I think it’s a central fat character.

Corinne

Can we name anything that passes?

Virginia

Shrill by Lindy West. And Too Much. Well, Lena Dunham doesn’t totally pass the Bechdel Test, but she passes the fat test.

Corinne

See, it gets very complicated. This is intersectionality!

Virginia

We strive for an intersectional world where the shows pass all the tests. This is such an interesting topic. I love this.

Corinne

I was also thinking about it because on my drive out, I read two of these Vera Stanhope mysteries. Have you read any of these?

Virginia

I have not.

Corinne

The main detective woman is fat, and I feel like it’ mostly fine. Like, 90% of the time they’re just talking about her, she’s fat, and she’s sloppy. She’s a sloppy fat person. And then, like, occasionally, there’ll be like, a sentence or two where I’m like, Ooh, I didn’t like that.

Virginia

It’s so deflating when you have something that’s seeming good, and then it takes a turn on you real fast.

Corinne

So would that pass the the fat Bechdel Test? Or whatever? Probably would.

Virginia

Because it’s as good as we can get.

Corinne

She’s the main character and not talking about dieting, really.

Virginia

Yeah, wait, so where does it fall apart for you?

Corinne

I should have brought an example, but I feel like occasionally there will be narration about her, and it’s suddenly like, “her body was disgusting,” you know?

Virginia

Oh God! I was thinking she maybe lumbered, or she sat heavily, or something. And you’re like—

Corinne

Yes. She sat heavily, that kind of thing. And I’m like, okay, sure.

But occasionally there’s just a twinge where I’m like, oh, you do kind of hate fat people.

Virginia

I would then like that author to read Laura Lippman’s work. Because Laura Lippman—regular Burnt Toasty! Hi, Laura!—has been doing such good work as a thin author to really work on her fat representation. And I just read Murder Takes a Vacation, which is one of Laura’s most recent novels, and it’s such a good read. Her protagonist, Mrs. Blossom, I believe was previously a side character in other novels who now has her own book. And the way she writes about body stuff in there is like… Laura’s been doing the work. She’s been really doing the work. It for sure, passes the Fay Fat Test.

Corinne

That’s awesome.

Virginia

So everyone check that out. And I would like Ann Cleeves to be reading Laura Lippman.

Should we talk about airplanes? Are you in a safe space to talk about airplane feelings?

Corinne

Sure. Yes.

Virginia

Corinne was just quoted in The Washington Post, which is very exciting, alongside Tigress Osborne, friend of the show, Executive Director of NAAFA, about how Southwest Airlines is changing their passenger of size policy.

Do you want to brief us on what’s happening there?

Corinne

So Southwest has had a policy in which a “customer of size,” meaning a person who doesn’t fit between two plane arm rests, can book two seats and be refunded for the second seat. Or you could show up at the airport day of, and ask for two seats. And not have to pay up front and then be refunded.

And in the past couple of months, this policy has somehow gotten really wobbly. I’ve heard all these anecdotal stories about people showing up at the airport and having Southwest tell them, “You’re not going to be able to do this anymore.” Like, don’t expect to show up and be able to book a second seat. You need to do it in advance. Blah, blah, blah.

Now Southwest has come out and said they’re changing the policy. They’re also implementing assigned seating, which they didn’t used to have. So going forward, you are going to have to book two seats in advance, and you will only be refunded if there are empty seats on the plane. Which, when are there ever empty seats?

Virginia

There are never empty seats on the plane? Never happens.

I don’t understand, because you needed two seats before, you still need two seats. So why does it matter whether there’s an empty seat or not? My brain breaks trying to follow the logic.

Corinne

I think the logic says like they could have sold the second seat to someone else.

Virginia

But then they’re not selling seats that work for people who are paying money to be there. Like, they’re taking your money, but if you can’t fit on the plane, then they just took your money. It’s so shady,

Corinne

And people who don’t need a whole seat don’t pay less.

Virginia

Over the age of two, your children do not get discounts for the fact that, they are using a third of a seat. You pay the same price for a child.

Corinne

Yep. It’s really sad, and it’s making life harder and sadder for a lot of people.

Virginia

I’m curious if another airline will step up on this. I think NAAFA has been doing a good job of making noise about this. I think people are putting pressure on them. It will be interesting if someone else realizes this is like a marketing opportunity.

Corinne

I think, they absolutely will not.

Virginia

Well, I’m not naive enough to think someone would do it just because it’s the right thing to do. But I’m hoping maybe one of Southwest’s direct competitors would realize it’s an opportunity.

Corinne

But I think that Southwest previously was the that airline. I think they were using that to their advantage, and now I think they’ve just been like, “It’s not worth it.” I think Alaska has the same policy where you can book two seats, and then if there is an empty seat, they’ll refund it.

Virginia

Well that’s great because Alaska flies so many places, people need to go.

Corinne

Well, if you’re in the if you’re in the part of the country where I live, they do! But.

Virginia

Oh! That’s good to know.

Corinne

I think they’re more on a competition level with Southwest versus like United or something, right? I don’t think United or Delta even has a customer of size policy.

Virginia

They’ve never cared.

Corinne

There’s no way to even book a second ticket for yourself, even if you want to just straight up pay for it.

Virginia

It leaves you the option of figuring out if you can afford business class to have a bigger seat. And that makes flying so much more expensive.

Corinne

Right? And it’s also just like, does business class fit everyone? Probably not.

Virginia

Well, we’re mad about that, but I did, like seeing you in the Washington Post article saying smart things. So thank you. Thanks your advocacy.

Let’s see what else has been going on… The Guardian had this interesting piece, which I’m quoted in a little bit, by Andrea Javor. She’s articulating something I’ve seen a few people starting to talk about, which is the experience of being on Ozempic and not losing weight from it.

And I think this is an interesting kind of under the radar piece of the whole GLP1s discourse. Some folks are non-responders, whether because they stay on a lower dose by choice, and it improves their numbers, but they don’t really lose weight, or some folks just don’t really lose weight on it. Her piece really articulates her feelings of shame and failure that this thing that’s supposed to be a silver bullet didn’t work for her.

Corinne

When I started reading the piece, I was extremely confused, because the the author has diabetes, but type one diabetes, and these drugs don’t help with type one diabetes. She eventually goes on it, just for weight loss. So what it didn’t work for was weight loss, And I think it actually may have ended up helping with her, like A1C, and stuff.

I agree that it does a good job of looking at the feelings that come along with that. And I do think, this does happen, and it’s not being talked about as as much as it’s happening probably.

Virginia

It feels important to highlight it in this moment where we have Serena Williams talking, about her husband’s telehealth company and promoting her use of GLP1s. And we had a great chat on Substack chat about the whole Serena Williams of it all. So I won’t rehash that whole discourse here.

I also think that’s a conversation where I want to hear from Black women. Chrissy King wrote an incredible piece. I also really appreciated the conversation that Sam Sanders, Zach Stafford and Saeed Jones had on Vibe Check about it.

So, I don’t need to get into Serena’s personal choices. But it does mean, we have another huge, very admired celebrity pushing into the conversation again to say, “This is this magic trick. This is the thing I was always looking for. It finally worked for me” And we are all vulnerable to that messaging. So it’s important to read stories like this one and understand oh, it really doesn’t actually work for everybody. Setting aside whether we think people should be pursuing weight loss, this isn’t necessarily going to be guaranteed, amazing results.

Corinne

Another interesting article that I thought maybe would want to mention is the the one in The Cut about ARFID.

Virginia

This was a great cover story in New York Magazine. The headline is The Monster at the Dinner Table, and it’s basically just encapsulating that ARFID has really been on the rise in recent years, and I think a lot of that is just because now we know what it is and we can diagnose it.

But it did include a pretty interesting discussion of what causes kids to lose the instinct to eat, what things get in the way of it. Like, it can be trauma, it can be a feature of autism. It can be a choking experience, all sorts of different things.

Corinne

ARFID is one of those conditions that I feel like I barely knew about before TikTok, and then I’ve just seen so much stuff about it on Tiktok.

Virginia

It only became a diagnosis in 2013, so it’s very, very new. My kiddo would have been diagnosed with it, if it was more fully in the vernacular at that point, but it wasn’t. So we were just told it was a “pediatric feeding disorder” type of thing. But it was very vague.

I think it’s great it’s getting more attention. Both for kids and adults. It can be such a source of anxiety and shame for parents. It is so much work. It is very difficult, and it’s harder than it should be because of diet culture, because of all the pressure put on parents to feed our kids certain ways. The backlash against ultraprocessed foods is really not helping anyone navigate ARFID. I can’t underscore that enough, really not helping. No one needs to feel shame about your kid living on chicken nuggets or frozen burritos or whatever it is.

Corinne

The amount of stigma against people who eat certain ways is nuts.

Virginia

It’s nuts and it’s sad.

Corinne

Yeah it’s socially isolating.

Virginia

It is harder to share, right? It’s very socially isolating, and it’s sad for the people around them. Anytime you’re navigating eating together with someone with food restrictions, it does create barriers and extra work and more you have to navigate.

But if we didn’t have that layer of stigma over it, where it’s like, it’s probably the mom’s fault, if only they like more whole foods at home, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, if we didn’t have all of that, you could focus just on the logistics are hard enough. You don’t need the shame.

So many sad topics. Airlines are terrible. Virginia doesn’t have any clothes to wear. ARFID is sad. Do we have anything to bring it up?

Corinne

Well, our exciting news?

Virginia

Oh, right! We are working on some very fun things.

It is exciting to think about new directions that Burnt Toast and Big Undies are going in. So stay tuned. Don’t worry, it’s not a reality TV show.

Butter

Virginia

Okay, my Butter is adjacent to the wardrobe frustration conversation. Which is: I have started cutting the collars off a lot of my shirts.

To back up: Last month, I’m on vacation in Cape Cod with my sister, and she comes down looking extremely cute. She’s wearing a graphic tee tucked into a long maxi skirt. And I was like, “This whole thing is delightful. What’s happening here?” And she was like, “Well, this shirt was actually too small for me, but I realized if I just cut the collar off it, it opened up the neck enough that then the shirt, the whole shirt fit better.” And she could still wear this cute shirt. And she said she got the idea from watching Somebody Somewhere, because Bridgett Everett cuts the collars off all her shirts.

Corinne

Oh yes! That was my signature look when I was 18. A Hanes T-shirt with the collar cut off.

Virginia

I’m dressing like 18-year-old Corinne, and I’m here for it!

But I’ve realized, frequently a place that something doesn’t fit me is my neck. I’ve talked about feelings about chins and necks.

I have many complicated feelings about chins and necks. This is one place where my fatness sits. So the shirt might otherwise fit okay, but it doesn’t fit my neck, and then it feels tight and it’s a miserable feeling. So at the end of our trip, I wanted to buy a Cape Cod sweatshirt, because there were some really cute sweatshirts. But they were not size inclusive. So I was like, can I make this extra large work? And it was a little small, but I cut the collar off, and now it’s okay.

And then I did it with my old Harris Walz T-shirt from the election. It was a cute stripe. I just really liked the stripe. And I was like, Oh, I could still wear this if I get the collar off it. And a couple other things. I’ve just been, like, cutting collars off shirts that are uncomfortable. I’m into it!

Corinne

I think that’s a great Butter. I’m into any kind of clothes modification that will make you wear stuff that you wouldn’t otherwise wear.

Virginia

It was a good solution for a couple of things in my closet that I did like, but I was not reaching for. And now I’ll use them again. And the key I figured out, because I experimented with a couple ways to cut it, is really just cut right along the seam of the sewed on collar. You might think that’s going to not open it up enough, but it will stretch once you start wearing it. you could always cut more if you needed to, but that seems to have done it for me.

Corinne

Okay, well, I want to recommend a recipe, and I feel like I possibly mentioned this before. I’m staying with my mom, and we’ve been making this recipe from the New York Times called stuffed zucchini, and it’s a really good recipe for if you have a surplus of zucchini, which a lot of people do this time of year.

You kind of scoop out the middle of a zucchini and then mix some of that together with, like, sausage, tomatoes, basil, and then put it back in the zucchini and bake it with, like, some crispy breadcrumbs, and it’s so good. I can literally, eat a whole zucchini in one sitting. Highly recommend.

Virginia

That sounds amazing. All right. Well, that makes me a little more excited about the season.

Corinne

Yeah, it is a very good time of year for eating. We should have talked more about food maybe?

Virginia

That is a good point. Our tomatoes in the garden are going gangbusters. I’ve made some great sauces. I’m having a lot of cheese and tomato sandwiches. toasted and not toasted. Delightful.

Well, this was a good family meeting catch up. I think we’ve covered a lot of ground. I’m excited to hear what folks are feeling about their dressing issues, and airlines, all the stuff we got into today.

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow me on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, and Big Undies!

The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.

Our theme music is by Farideh.

Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.

Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!