Sarah and Miranda talk to Lucy Jones, author of the book Matrescence, out May 7th, about how becoming a mother is truly a biopsychosocial evolution, how motherhood in nature is more often about chaos and violence than dyads and instincts, Kafka’s Metamorphosis, and our favorite Bluey episodes.

Links:

* Order Lucy’s book, Matrescence

* Alexandra Sacks’ The Birth of a Mother in the NY TImes

* The Quickening by Elizabeth Rush

* Natality by Jennifer Banks

* Partum Gardens Portland

* Andrea O’Reilly

* Sarah’s favorite Bluey episode

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Episode 20: 'Matrescence' Is Not A Dirty Word with Lucy Jones