The rise of the Black Lives Matter movement brought renewed interest in corporate diversity gurus. But Regina Jackson and Saira Rao were ahead of the curve, pursuing their own unique anti-racist education programme.

Tired of talking to individual white women about their racism, they decided to invite a group of them for dinner, and confront them with their bias and bigotry. There was one rule - no crying.

The New Gurus is a series about looking for enlightenment in the digital world.

Written and presented by Helen Lewis

Series Producers: Morgan Childs and Tom Pooley Story consultant: Geoff Bird Original music composed by Paper Tiger Sound design and mix: Rob Speight Editor: Craig Templeton Smith

A Tempo & Talker production for BBC Radio 4 and BBC Sounds

#632 WP-Tonic Round-Table Show 24th of September, 2021 With Special Guests Vic Drover & Chris Badgett