S4E02: Holiday Horror Stories: How to Reclaim the Joy of Christmas, with Kelley, Kelly Anne, and Emma of the Woman Being Podcast

The Christmas story starts with a teenage girl, Mary, and an angel of God.    Kelley Werner, co-host of the Woman Being Podcast, explains: “She's portrayed as this passive participant in her faith. There's an edification of her. "Lord, whatever you say, I will do. So be it." She's passively impregnated by an angel, and becomes this side character in the narrative of Jesus.    That angle was always impressed upon us as young women: Keeping our posture very open to whatever God or men determine is like our best path.”    The Christmas story, as we talk about with Kelley, Kelly Anne Carter, and Emma Williams, has significant implications on how we, and especially women, engage with our bodies. We talk more about:

• Implications of the Idea of Mary (11:00):  Jeremiah notes how Mary’s passiveness paves the way for women to be treated as weak and passive: "There's a parallel between God non consensually disseminating his sperm into Mary and Mary being like, I guess that just happened...That gets played out in the church..women are expected to be passive people that will just like go along with whatever is suggested.”
• What About Joseph? (14:00): Emma discusses how Christians's obsession with Mary doesn’t translate to Joseph, because he embodies an accepting man who believes his wife: “For men, why don't Christians also say, oh, you need to believe your wife? Why don't we say you need to blindly follow her path?"
• Gatekeepers of Sexuality (22:00): Kelly Anne shares how her family pressures her, not her husband, about when she will be having a child: “I’m the one that's preventing my husband from spreading his genes. Which is kind of interesting to think about because we're sitting with this together." Julia adds: “When we're talking about gatekeeping around sexuality being the role of women, the fact that people ask you about pregnancy versus your husband is super significant to that.” 
• Induced Grief (32:00): The Church is built upon pillars of shame, and the holidays, instead of a time for joy and being with loved ones, are centered on the idea that we are all bad, shameful, sinful people who must repent. Kelley frames this as induced grief: “It's built on the fact that you need to be reminded that you are the worst, and nothing you could ever do would be enough. And therefore, Jesus must come and save you, right? That is why this beautiful baby had to be born. That's, to me, an induced grief...We're talking about an added reminder of insufficiency that doesn't relate to grief in the way that I think of grief.”
• Sensuality Around the Holidays (40:00): Julia talks about how engaging in joyous activities can be perceived as indulgence, thus feeding into the Christian idea that the holidays are for loving Jesus, not gluttonous celebration: “Because sensuality has a connotation with indulgence and indulgence has a connotation with gluttony or excess, all of those things can be demonized in Christian culture, especially for women and especially around the holidays.” 
• The Holidays and Healing (42:00): Kelly Anne describes, “To me, the holidays are a sensual experience and, to me, that is a part of the purity culture recovery. It is reclaiming the delight of the senses. And so the holidays, if you have the capacity, and if it's something that you're in the right place for, can be such a beautiful healing experience.”
• Christian-ish and Incorporating Former Traditions (50:00): Kelley discusses how to incorporate former Christian traditions that bring joy, but adjust them to fit your current stage of life and family: “[What has] resonated most with me is this idea of being Christian-ish and the idea that I was raised within the Christian faith. It's built my morals, it's built my value system, and it's very much my culture and family history. Learning to embrace the parts of Christianity that bring me joy or feel like a part of my tradition feels comforting to me without necessarily having to fully believe everything."