Patrick Kingsley, Jerusalem bureau chief for The New York Times, explores the controversy surrounding Israel's claims of a secret Hamas base at Shifa hospital. He witnesses the destruction caused by the ongoing conflict and discusses the reasoning behind the destruction and its relation to the Israeli case. While intriguing evidence suggests a command center under the hospital, more proof is needed.
Limited access to Gaza impedes reporting on destruction and civilian casualties in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Evidence presented by the Israeli military falls short of proving a Hamas military base in Shifa Hospital.
Deep dives
Israeli military enters Shifa Hospital to justify its strategy in Gaza
During the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Israel took control of Gaza's largest hospital, Shifa, claiming that it concealed a secret Hamas military base. This hospital has become the center of the debate over Israel's conduct in the war. Journalist Patrick Kingsley was one of the few reporters allowed to visit Shifa Hospital with the Israeli military. While inside, he observed a shaft that the military claimed led to a Hamas underground complex. However, the evidence presented did not prove conclusively that the hospital was being used as a military command center. Despite the limited access to the hospital, the visit raised questions about the extent of destruction and civilian casualties in Gaza.
Exploring the challenges of reporting from Gaza
Visiting Gaza is challenging for journalists due to restricted movements caused by airstrikes, the Israeli invasion, and Hamas-imposed restrictions. The limited access to Gaza impedes reporting on the widespread destruction and civilian casualties. Journalists face difficulties in verifying claims made by both sides of the conflict. While the Israeli military provided some evidence, such as videos of a tunnel underneath Shifa Hospital and footage of people being brought in under duress, these pieces of evidence are not conclusive and do not provide an overall picture of the situation in Gaza.
The impact of the Israeli strategy on civilian casualties
Israel's strategy of targeting Hamas within civilian areas has resulted in a high civilian death toll and widespread destruction in Gaza. The Israeli military argues that Hamas embeds itself within civilian infrastructure, making it a necessary target. However, critics argue that the civilian death toll is due to Israel's indiscriminate targeting and that even one civilian death is too many. The ratio of civilian to militant deaths raises questions about Israel's calculus and precautions in minimizing civilian casualties during military operations.
Uncertainty and potential outcomes of the conflict
The ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas is unlikely to shift the pre-established battle lines between supporters of either side. The evidence presented by the Israeli military, while intriguing, falls short of conclusive proof of a military command center within Shifa Hospital. The lack of concrete evidence means that the debate over Israel's targeting of civilian infrastructure and Hamas's use of civilian institutions will continue. The destruction and displacement caused by the conflict aggravate the already dire humanitarian crisis in Gaza, with negotiations underway for a ceasefire and potential hostage exchanges.
As the war against Hamas enters a seventh week, Israel finds itself under intense pressure to justify its actions in Gaza, including the raid of Al-Shifa Hospital, which it says is a center of Hamas activity. Hamas and hospital officials deny the accusation.
Patrick Kingsley, the Jerusalem bureau chief for The Times, was one of the reporters invited by the Israeli military on an escorted trip into the enclave.
Guest: Patrick Kingsley, Jerusalem bureau chief for The New York Times.
Background reading:
Traveling into Gaza with an Israeli military convoy, Times journalists saw houses flattened like playing cards and a city utterly disfigured.
For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Get the Snipd podcast app
Unlock the knowledge in podcasts with the podcast player of the future.
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode
Save any moment
Hear something you like? Tap your headphones to save it with AI-generated key takeaways
Share & Export
Send highlights to Twitter, WhatsApp or export them to Notion, Readwise & more
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode