[PREVIEW] Wait, Is Nicola Coughlan Even Fat?

Welcome to Indulgence Gospel After Dark!

It’s time for your May Extra Butter! Today we are talking about the bodies of Bridgerton.

If you’re listening to this the day it drops, season three is out! We love the show. We love Nicola Coughlan. And we do not love the way the Internet talks about her body!

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Extra Butter Episode 7 Transcript

Virginia

I am so excited for season three. I just need to express some fan excitement before we dive in. Did you did you watch it when it was first airing? 

Corinne

That’s a great question. My strong memory of first watching Bridgerton is that it was right around the time that my dad was dying and it was exactly the escape that I needed. I can’t remember if it was right before or right after, but I was like, “Take me away.”

Virginia

Erase everything.

Corinne

I was really skeptical. It just didn’t sound to me like the kind of thing I would like. And then I watched it and was like, oh no, I love this. 

Virginia

I was a Bridgerton skeptic for a very long time too! I did not watch it at all when it first came out. I can’t remember why, I think I was just being a snob? I think I was just like, “I don’t need another period drama. I’ve seen all the good period dramas.” Like, what? I don’t know.

But I got into it earlier this year. It is not a show I can watch with my kids, but I needed something fun to watch on my solo weekends and I binged it hard. I watched the first two seasons earlier this winter, and was like, where has this been all my life? I also really loved the spin off Queen Charlotte, even more maybe.

Obviously, the story is really fun, but I love all the small details—like the way they’ll do a classical interpretation of a pop song. There are a lot of layers to the production that are just very fun.

Corinne

Right? Like, it’s a period drama, but it’s also really not. The music, and also lots of people of color. 

Virginia

Obviously, I was Team Penelope from early on. She’s the best character. 

Corinne

Yes. She’s kind of the whole heart of the show because—

Spoiler Alert! (If you haven’t seen seasons 1 and 2)

Virginia

She’s Lady Whistledown! Sorry if you haven’t seen the first two seasons. There are going to be spoilers today. 

And what’s very exciting about season three is that it is Penelope’s moment! It is her season!

Do you want to talk about what you’ve been hearing about what this season might include? 

Corinne

So I haven’t read any of the books, but I’ve heard that the books are problematic. There’s some weird bad stuff in them. I have also heard that in the book that focuses on Penelope’s love story, the plot is that Penelope has always been in love with Colin but Colin doesn’t fall for Penelope or doesn’t see her until she loses a bunch of weight.

So that would be a real bummer if that were the plot of this season of the TV show. I’m feeling hopeful that it’s not going to be like that just because of the ways in which they’ve made it not exactly a period drama. 

Virginia

I want to believe Shonda is not going to do Penelope dirty. I have been fact checking this in real time by texting with my best friend who has read all the Bridgerton books. She says she does not remember book four featuring a big weight loss plot. Full disclosure, Amy is someone who is not great at remembering plots! But I think she would remember that detail. She is now live texting me some excerpts that I can read for us. I have no page numbers. 

“She was soft, curvy, and lush, just as he always thought a woman should be.”

That seems promising.

Corinne

Interesting, okay. 

Virginia

“Her hips flared, her bottom was perfect, her breasts… Good God, her breasts felt good pressing against his chest.”

Maybe we should have flagged this as an X-rated Extra Butter! 

Then Amy says, “I just found the part where her mom gave up taking her to the modiste and choosing her clothes, because she was officially on the shelf as a spinster. So now she gets to wear cooler colors and Eloise thinks she looks lovely.”

Corinne

So she’s not only fat, she’s a spinster.

Virginia

She’s been a spinster for the whole show. There has been no hope of her marrying. But I’m kind of here to stan some Eloise/Penelope stuff. That would be great. Maybe that’s the direction they take it. 

Corinne

Interesting. 

Virginia

So okay, we don’t have confirmation about whether or not the books feature a prominent weight loss plot. Commenters, you can tell us.

But it is certainly an open and ongoing concern. Any time a fat actress gets main character energy in a TV show, they are going to wedge in a weight loss plot. Whether it was in the original book or not, I would be worried about this. I want to believe that in a post-Shrill world, we have evolved past the need for that, but I don’t know that we have.

The other piece of this is, the way Nicola Coughlan’s body is discussed all the time definitely suggests that a lot of viewers of the show and a lot of media that cover the show would expect that to be part of the journey.

Corinne

Nicola has been pretty openly responsive or critical of how much her body gets talked about.

Virginia

Which is constantly, every article that’s written about her. And we should just say that is not true across the board for the Bridgerton actresses. The thinner actresses do not get this much scrutiny, which is both not surprising, because anti-fatness, and is surprising, because this is very much a show about bodies.

It’s about these women’s bodies being controlled with all the strict rules about what they can wear and how they’re getting presented to society and whether they’ll be attractive to a man. It’s also often a show about women claiming their bodies and their pleasure.

I’m blanking on the names of the two actresses who played Daphne and Kate, but you don’t see interviews with either of them having to be like, “This is how it feels to be thin as a gorgeous Hollywood actress. Against all odds I was cast as the love interest.” They’re actresses who are always cast as the love interest. That is a real disconnect. And Nicola has to keep addressing it, and I just feel her exhaustion that this is a part of every interview and every conversation. 

Corinne

It’s not just Bridgerton either! I think also for Derry Girls and everything else she’s ever done. She’s always “the fat one.” 

Virginia

Let’s talk about this Harper’s Bazaar UK piece because I think this is the big media piece that came out to help launch the new season. And it is a very rich text. What jumped out to you first?

Corinne

I thought it was interesting that she wrote it—although you had some thoughts about that. 

Virginia

Yes, she did not write it. This is an “as told to.” As someone who’s written many an “as told to,” my guess is at the photoshoot, while she was sitting in the hair and makeup chair, an editorial assistant or other staffer from Harper’s Bazaar sat next to her and asked questions. And they recorded everything and then went back and put this together. 

It is extremely rare that an actress would write this piece completely on her own without any input. In terms of both her own schedule—she talks in the article about how she’s filming 17 shows at once. When would she have time to write an article and go through the editing process with the editors? And the magazine is going to want certain things, so they would want a lot of control over what they could get out of her. These are always “as told to.” And in this case, not even credited to the ghostwriter. So good job, ghostwriter, wherever you are. But it is interesting that they decided to do it as a first person.

Corinne

Yeah. I think the part that really sticks out is the list where she says,

“Luckily, I have a fool-proof way to avoid scrutiny as a woman in the industry! All you have to do is follow these simple rules:”

And then it’s sort of jokey and sarcastic. Like, “be permanently 22 years old, be a sample size, have a sparkling personality.”

Virginia

And I love that she says,

So, when I say sample size, know that the camera adds 10 lbs, so one size below that is the actual ideal. If, for any reason, you can’t/won’t follow this rule, I suggest accepting that, in every interview you do, you will have to talk about your figure instead of your work. I get asked all the time about my body – I wrote an article in 2018 for The Guardian in which the thesis was: ‘Please focus on my work and not my body.’ I still feel exactly the same.

Here it is six years later and she’s still having to address this.

Corinne

It’s so interesting because she has been so vocal about, like, “Focus on the work, not my body!" Stop asking me these questions.” And yet, whether or not she’s actually writing an article, she’s focusing on her body, too.  

Virginia

The magazine wants to seem like they have all this access to Nicola and that they’re giving her a microphone and a place to say what she wants to say. This is supposed to be her controlling the narrative, but she still has to address this piece of things rather than just talking about the challenges of developing the Penelope character or even how she felt about costume choices and how they influenced her performance. The piece doesn’t really focus on that at all. 

I also really liked the part where she talks about ending up on American Vogue’s Best Dressed list.

Corinne

Yes. She ended up on this Vogue’s Best Dressed Women in the World list. Then she describes what she’s wearing and how unfashionable she actually is in her day-to-day life. So she says,

Today, for example, I am wearing a jumper that has the word ‘happy’ on it, beside a picture of a rainbow – this is a terrible jumper. I was given it for free years ago and for some reason, even though I know it’s terrible, I wear it all the time. Completing this ensemble is a pair of Guinness socks (also free) and some ancient leggings that I realised midway through the day were on backwards. I did consider turning them round but, ultimately, I was fine with it.

I mean, relatable. Very relatable.

Virginia

I was like, Nicola, do you want to do the #UnflatteringToast Style Challenge with us?So many great rules are broken here. Such a great comfy outfit. I love it. 

And I do give the editors’ credit that they included that anecdote, because it really shows us the disconnect between how actresses are forced to perform their bodies for the world and how they actually conceive of their bodies and how that has absolutely nothing to do with the way they have to give their bodies to us. 

Corinne

Right? And what is fashionable? Is someone who’s fashionable someone who dresses fashionably alone at home? Or is someone who dresses fashionably on the red carpet? 

Virginia

That’s a fair point. 

Corinne

She’s describing what she has to wear for work versus what she wears in her personal day-to-day life.

Virginia

There’s something to letting fashion be this thing you perform. Maybe it’s not a personal passion of hers, so she doesn’t need to do it at home. There was an interesting thing you pulled up about people responding to what she wears on the red carpet. Do you want to talk about that? 

Corinne

There was a tweet where said,

The fat girl from Bridgerton is wearing a black cardigan at the Golden Globes, because no matter how hot and stylish you are, if you’re a fat girl, there will always be a black cardigan you think about wearing then decide against but ultimately wear because you feel like you have to.

And Nicola responded, “I thought the cardigan looked ace Molly Goddard used them on her runway with the dresses. That’s where the idea came from. Also, I have a name.” 

Virginia

I mean, kind of fair on both counts. Amanda’s not wrong. The cardigan is a ubiquitous fat girl fashion thing. This just came up in the Style Challenge last week! A fat person said to me, “ou can never go wrong if you add a cardigan or a top layer. If you feel like you’re breaking a rule, just add a cardigan.” And I was like, “But what if it’s hot? What if I don’t want to?” So it is one of those rules and I can understand why Amanda interpreted it that way. But it’s also a fair that Nicola was like, No, I just liked it and what if you didn’t dissect my body? 

Corinne

What if you didn’t refer to me as “the fat girl?”

Virginia

She also tweeted around the same time, “I mean this in the nicest way possible. I’m not a body positive activist, I’m an actor. I would lose or gain weight if an important role requirement. My body is the tool I use to tell stories, not what I define myself by.” And that’s a fair thing to say about your body, right?

Corinne

It’s true, she’s not a body positive activist. Her body is part of her toolkit as an actor.

Virginia

I think it’s problematic that anytime a fat person becomes famous, they are expected to have a very specific perspective on their body. They either need to be textbook pursuing intentional weight loss—I’m thinking of Chrissy Metz from This Is Us where she had to sign the contract saying the character would pursue a weight loss plot. It’s either that we are allowing you to be visible because you are on a path to make yourself smaller, or we are allowing you to be visible because you will always, in every conversation, come back to “I’m fat. I’m happy to be fat. I love being fat. This is my whole identity.”

And both are incredibly reductive and not allowing for the whole range of human experiences about having a body.

Corinne

It sucks.

Virginia

It really does. It really does.

Corinne

This Harper’s Bazaar article first came on my radar because the photos were getting shared around social media.

I saw Sean Taylor posting about how amazing Nicola looks—and she does look amazing. But in the reel that Sean Taylor posted, she says, “In your mind, think of how old you think this person is.” And then she tells us Nicola is 37. And like, she does look young. But Sean Taylor is like, “I’m going to be bringing these photos to my injectionist and my hairstylist,” or whatever.

I just can’t imagine how hard it must be to have that much scrutiny even when it’s praise about how young you look.

Virginia

Horrific. This reel is really interesting because it’s basically the Venn diagram of anti-fatness and ageism. Sean Taylor is excited about how glorious Nicola looks because she looks young. So you’re only allowed to be fat and visible and fashionable if you are young, which is not great news for a lot of fat people.

Corinne

Like someone who’s actually 38.

Virginia

I haven’t been 37 for a minute now, and I’m still here. We are just going to keep existing in our bodies for many years more.

Also, these photos! I mean, this is for the same piece where she talks about walking around in the Guinness socks and the rainbow sweatshirt. These photos they have very little bearing on what she looks like in real life. This is a photo shoot for Harper’s Bazaar Magazine, there is an army of people standing by at these photoshoots. There is so much meticulous work going into every one of these images, both at the photoshoot itself in terms of hair and makeup and fashion and lighting. And then afterwards, in all of the incredibly comprehensive retouching these photos had.

So, basically what Sean is celebrating is that a fat girl got that “star treatment.” But all that treatment did was take a fat person and try to make them look as much as possible like a thin Hollywood celebrity.

Corinne

It also makes me think of all those times when someone who’s fat or borderline fat has had this treatment and then the unretouched originals get released. I remember that being a huge thing when Lena Dunham was in Vogue.

Virginia

Yes, and everyone feels deceived. But it’s all a deception. I mean, even not-fat actresses like Tina Fey—who, problematic on weight, always. But she talks in her memoir about being shot for shoots like this and the dress is not zipped up at the back. And, as a size eight, they didn’t have her size.

So I’m looking at the photos now and I want to be clear, I’m going to look at these photos as a former magazine editor to talk about the work I think they did on the photos. I am not critiquing Nicola’s body as I talk about this—her body belongs to her. But I think it’s useful for all of us to understand what went into them. 

So in the Bazaar piece, in both the opening image where she’s in the gold dress and if you scroll down to the one of her in the pink dress, you can tell by the shading at the sides of her body that they did a lot of photoshopping to make her waist look much more defined. I mean, I don’t know what her waist looks like in real life, but I can tell by the shading on the side of that pink dress and by the way her hands sit on the hips of the dress. There was more of her that came out of that photo and they did that deliberately. My guess is they did it on her arms, as well. If you look at her left arm there compared to her right arm you can kind of see the top of the left arm. 

Corinne

Oh yeah, it looks very strange actually. 

Virginia

It’s not super subtle once you start looking for it.

In the gold dress, too, you can see the slimming on the sides. And certainly her skin is heavily filtered. Nobody’s skin is like that. She has no pores. Nobody’s skin in real life is made of that magazine texture skin. 

Corinne

It’s like, yes, she’s fat. Maybe? Maybe she’s fat? She’s small fat? She’s midsize? But if she’s fat, she’s also unbelievably beautiful, has really gorgeous skin, looks much younger than she is. And that’s why she’s here.

Virginia

There’s a ton of pretty privilege. There’s hourglass privilege. And then there’s a whole machine, taking whatever she has in real life and amplifying that and downplaying anything else. 

I want to again be super clear, we are not criticizing Nicola! She’s promoting the show. And Bridgerton is a fantasy, right? Bridgerton is a show that’s a total fantasy, where there are these elaborate costumes, elaborate hair and makeup. It makes sense to do a Harper’s Bazaar shoot that’s very high fashion. She’s being shot in a castle or whatever. There’s fancy art behind her. I completely get why they did this. I don’t even think it’s necessarily harmful. What I think is harmful is that people intellectually think they understand Photoshop, but they don’t understand the impact it has on our brains. 

Like, the fact that Sean Taylor, who’s been in the industry and understands these things, is like, “Great, I want to look like this.” She’s not recognizing how much work went into making Nicola look like this in these images. So, I think that is harmful.

But on the other hand, this is a fantasy of a show. She’s playing a character. She’s playing Penelope in these photos, basically. This isn’t Nicola.

Where do you land on that question?

Corinne

I think my first reaction is no. It’s fun. It’s cool. It’s fashion. It’s fun to look at photos that aren’t real. But I do think you’re looking at photos and your brain is processing it as “this is how a person looks,” but it’s not how a person looks. 

Virginia

Yeah, every pose she’s standing with her hands on her hips—and not even on her actual hips, but on the front of her. She’s covering her stomach, basically. It emphasizes the hourglass shape. I honestly feel bad for her. Posing for photos is a nightmare. And I don’t think being a good actress makes you necessarily good at posing for photos. It’s a very different skill and to have every photographer be like, “hands in front now.”

Corinne

But the photos are cool. 

Virginia

I mean, she looks amazing. It just also feels like a really interesting choice and yet not a surprising choice for Harper’s Bazaar to say, we’re going to write this essay by her talking about how she doesn’t like all this focus on her body and she’s actually this unfashionable girl in backwards leggings who’s just like living her life. And then we’re going to juxtapose that with photos of her looking as high fashion and as marketably beautiful as possible.

There’s a disconnect.

Corinne

The beginning of the article is her saying how she wanted to be a gay icon like Bette Midler and how she was the oddball in the corner and the strange girl no one pays attention to. 

Virginia

So to be the romantic lead in the next season is a weird disconnect. These photos are an attempt to cast her as the ingenue. To be like, “look, she can do it!” And they’re successful. But what if we could have an ingenue who didn’t have to be checking every possible box on the pretty list? I guess Bridgerton is not the show you go to for authentic body representation. I mean, maybe I’m asking too much.

Corinne

It’s hard because I do think in some ways it’s better than other shows, there’s definitely more racial diversity. And there is one small fat person. Well wait is Penelope’s mom fat? I can’t remember.

Virginia

No. She’s curvy. It’s a MILF vibe. It’s not fat representation. And she’s always hyper corseted.

I read an interesting article about the costuming and they dress her character, basically like a 1950’s pinup, but in a longer dress. If you look at the way her hair is always done, it’s a very 1950’s silhouette. Even though it’s done on a full length gown, because of the time period the show is set in. Whereas Violet Bridgerton, the mom of the Bridgerton clan, they dress much more like a Jane Austen character. She is supposed to look Regency. With Penelope’s mom they’re going for a certain Elizabeth Taylor kind of vibe.

I’m very protective of Penelope as a character. I really want this to go well. I don’t feel like I’m that into Colin as a love interest.

Corinne

Wasn’t there something at the end of the last season where they danced and then he was into someone else?

Virginia

He was a shit at the end of the second season. He’s kind of bland and whatever. He’s not one of the men that I was like, ooh, him. Whereas Anthony, the older brother, he’s complicated. He’s stormy. And the Duke, obviously, no more needs to be said about the inherent hotness of the Duke. But Colin I do not feel is inherently hot. So I am curious how he can carry the season.

Penelope, hands down, can carry it. Should have been carrying the whole show the whole time. And I would be into an Eloise plot line.

Corinne

I’m going to just go out on a limb and say I don’t think that’s going to happen.

Virginia

I know. There are some queer characters in the show? But I mean, very background.

Corinne

 It would be a very 180 degree turn from the books. But who knows? 

Virginia

Yes, that’s true, but I would be really into it. Because remember when they go to that sex club in the first season? There are guys hooking up with guys. I don’t know if that’s in the books, or if that’s all Shonda.

Corinne

It would be interesting if one of the seasons ends up being queer.

Virginia

Here for it. Shonda, are you listening? Are you an Extra Butter? Do you listen and take plot notes from us? Please don’t have Penelope lose weight. We just don’t want to see that. 

Well, this was very fun. I’m excited to hear what people think in the comments. I hope we have a lot of Bridgerton fans in the community. And if you want to talk about what’s problematic about the show, we are here for that too. We’re not saying it’s a perfect show, by any means. I know there were a lot of feelings about Daphne in the first season. Totally open to those critiques. But yeah, Team Penelope.

Butter

Corinne

Okay, my Butter is another thing that started on TikTok, which is jacket potatoes. I have become completely obsessed with baked potatoes which are called jacket potatoes in England. There are these Tiktoks of people getting jacket potatoes at these jacket potato stands. You watch them slice open the potato and mash up the insides and put on an enormous amount of cheese and an enormous scoop of beans, and they just look so freakin good.

So I bought myself some potatoes and I’ve been making baked potatoes and it’s so delicious and so fun and you can put anything on them. Like so much butter and so much cheese. And they’re so filling and hearty. It’s becoming summer and I’m sure I’m not gonna want to do it for much longer but I am enjoying jacket potatoes. 

Virginia

What do you put on yours? Do you have a go-to? Or are you trying different things?

Corinne

I’ve been trying different things but my go to right now is that I put on butter, cheddar cheese, black beans, salt, salsa—I have this like green chile salsa—sour cream and more cheese. It’s really, really good.

Virginia

Almost like a burrito.

Corinne

It’s like a bean quesadilla on a potato. It’s so good, though. I was also playing around with some bacon. I could also see steak and eggs being good.

Virginia

Sour cream and bacon and chives is a classic jacket potato. 

Corinne

That’s more of an American topping, too. But they all are always doing like tuna mayo, which I’m like, I don’t know. 

Virginia

Butter and then tuna. In England, that’s extremely normal. It’s interesting because we’re coming off a moment where a lot of people have opinions about how my kids eat butter. And I will say, it is a part of their British heritage. You put butter on every piece of bread and every potato. Like you are making a turkey sandwich and you are planning to use mayonnaise, you start with butter on the bread. Butter goes on the bread no matter what. My cousins will put butter—regular butter—and then peanut butter on top. You just always butter your bread. That’s just done.

I remember as an American kid being like, ew the butter is going to mix with with the mayo. And I think it’s actually delicious. They’re geniuses. 

Corinne

Yeah. I feel like it actually has a purpose. It holds the mayo from seeping into the bread as much. 

Virginia

Well, and on the flip side, I feel like I often use mayo. Like if I’m making in the summer a tomato and cheese sandwich, I still want mayo in there even though I have the cheese. Even if I’m using a goat cheese or something spreadable.

Corinne

But mayo is different because it’s acidic! It’s like salad dressing. 

Virginia

I need it for a buffer seal on the bread before I put the goat cheese on.

Corinne

I like the mayo for the flavor. 

Virginia

I’d also do a mayo-based sandwich, but I’m saying even if mayo is not the star player I want it on the sandwich. But some people hate mayo. It’s a polarizing condiment. 

Corinne

This is true. So anyways, I recommend jacket potatoes and watching jacket potato Tiktoks.

Virginia

Well, since this is running in May, I felt like my Butter should be garden related. We’re recording this in late April and so in my gardening zone 6B, we can’t really start getting stuff in the ground till after May 15. You can do perennials but not annual type stuff. So I have these raised beds in my garden, which we initially conceived of during COVID as a vegetable garden, and then I remembered I didn’t like vegetable gardening. So now I do them every year as flowers and usually I don’t put a lot of thought into it. Around May 15, I go to a garden center and buy whatever annuals look fun and throw them all in and that’s delightful. But I had some extra time this year and I was like I can really plan out this cutting garden, like meticulously plan it out. I will do a screenshot of my multicolored spreadsheet. 

I spent hours this weekend just so happy down a rabbit hole planning it out. I’m doing the dahlia beds and the zinnia bed and the cosmos bed. And then I think we’re going to do some sunflower beds because my kids are always asking me to grow sunflowers. I’m planning the whole color palette so all the beds are going to go together. They’re not just going to be hodgepodge rainbow, which is delightful—don’t get me wrong. But I was like, I’m going to really do a thoughtful color palette and I’m in deep. I’m in deep.

But it does mean I have to grow a lot more from seed. Like, I want to grow this cosmo called apricot lemonade. At the nurseries you’re always only going to get the white and purple cosmos. So that’s the kind of color scheme of the whole cutting garden. I’m doing all blush pinks and peaches. Maybe one hot pink because I cannot not have a hot pink dahlia. But I’m going to do more peaches and pink tones.

So I have to order everything from seed and I haven’t ever done the cutting garden this much from seeds, so I’m a little nervous in case that doesn’t work. I have grown all of these flowers from seeds before but I’ve always intermixed it with some seedlings. So it’s going to be a little a little more complicated. But on the plus side, it was a lot cheaper. So stay tuned for the evolution of the cutting garden! I’m really excited but just planning it was such a good butter this weekend. 

Corinne

That’s great. 

Virginia

Well, this was very fun. If there are other shows with fat rep or diet culture themes that we should dissect, you guys tell us about them in the comments because this was a fun episode. 

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The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow me on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.

The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.

Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.

Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.

Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!