Dr. John Vervaeke Navigating the Trust Apocalypse: Examining Collective Agency and Distributed Cognitio
How do we rebuild trust and meaning in a world where certainty and connection are breaking down?
In this episode of The Lectern, John welcomes Kieran McCammon and Jordan Hall to discuss the 'trust apocalypse' and its intersection with the meaning crisis. They delve into the vicious cycle between the loss of trust and the fragmentation of communities, exploring how these issues reverberate through society. Kieran introduces his work on the Trust Foundation, which aims to address these challenges by leveraging collective agency, distributed cognition, and extended distributed labor. John and Jordan bring their expertise to discuss the deeper topics related to trust, faith, and the sacred, and how these concepts tie into addressing contemporary societal issues. They also highlight how we are at a pivotal moment where new forms of technology and community organization could help counteract the prevailing distrust and meaning crisis.
Jordan Hall is a futurist, systems strategist, and cultural philosopher exploring the deep structures shaping human coordination, meaning-making, and collective intelligence. A former tech executive and early internet pioneer, Jordan now works at the intersection of theory and practice, developing frameworks for catalytic communities capable of responding to complex, civilizational-scale challenges. His work emphasizes the collapse of trust-based and certainty-driven systems, proposing instead a reorientation toward spirit-infused participation, sacred purpose, and voluntary necessity. A key contributor to the Trust Foundation, Jordan draws on cybernetics, epistemology, and meta-theory to guide the emergence of post-bureaucratic forms of social coherence and institutional renewal.
Keiron McCammon is a technology entrepreneur and systems thinker whose work addresses the intersection of social trust, digital infrastructure, and collective agency. A veteran of Silicon Valley’s early Web 2.0 era, he helped build the foundations of the social internet before turning his focus to the unintended consequences of digital connectivity. As co-founder of the Trust Foundation, Keiron investigates the societal breakdown he terms the "trust apocalypse," analyzing how technological design, institutional failure, and civic fragmentation have eroded our collective sense of meaning and belonging. Drawing on frameworks from network theory, systems thinking, and military innovation, his work catalyzes action-oriented communities aimed at rebuilding trust across personal, institutional, and technological domains.
The Philosophical Silk Road Project
(00:00) – Introduction and excitement for the conversation
(00:30) – Introducing Kieran McCammon and the trust apocalypse
(01:30) – Exploring the trust apocalypse and its implications
(04:00) – Kieran's background and the evolution of trust issues
(05:00) – The role of technology and the breakdown of trust
(06:30) – The Trust Foundation and catalytic communities
(11:00) – The deep connection between trust and meaning
(18:00) – Historical context and the collapse of certainty
(28:00) – The need for a shared sacred canopy
(30:50) – “A catalytic community can’t exist without a calling—a sacred purpose that’s bigger than any one of us.”
(39:00) – Challenges of technology and cross-cultural pluralism
(47:30) – Exploring voluntary necessity
(49:00) – Certainty vs. trust
(50:30) – The breakdown of societal trust
(52:00) – The role of technology in trust erosion
(54:00) – The attention economy and trustworthy AI
(01:02:00) – The concept of abundance vs. scarcity
(01:10:00) – Cultivating wisdom and trust
(01:23:00) – The spiritual war and meaning crisis
(01:27:00) – Call to action: building catalytic communities
—
The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
—
Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Philosophical Silk Road Trust Apocalypse Meaning Crisis Collective agency Epistemology of trust Deep knowing by participation Certainty vs. trust Relevance realization Reflective equilibrium (between theory and practice Chris Lich Robert Putnam Clement of Alexandria Bishop Maximus Jonathan Pageau David Hume (implied via discussion on skepticism) G.W Leibniz and René Descartes (mentioned re: Enlightenment certainty) Team of Teams by Gen. Stanley McChrystal Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam The Upswing by Robert Putnam Tim Berners-Lee’s open letter on the internet Aspen Institute report on Information Disorder