Original air date: July 30, 2025

You’ve probably heard that President Trump and the European Union have reached a big trade deal. This is being widely portrayed as a “win” for Trump and a big humiliation for the EU. But it’s not at all clear what we gain as a country from this deal. Surely the phrase “Trump won” has to mean more than “Trump gets to claim a personal victory and the media is required to play along,” right? We talked to economist Paul Krugman, who has a great new piece on his Substack casting a lot of much-needed skepticism on the deal. Krugman explains in extensive detail what a sham it is: He argues that Europe’s concessions are fake; that the deal won’t spur a lot more manufacturing in the United States; and that its burden will fall heavily on MAGA, making it a “scam on his voters.” Krugman also discusses why the media seems incapable of reporting clearly and accurately on the magnitude of Trump’s incompetence and delusions.

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