TCCPodcast #108: The suitcase exercise with Linda Perry

Copywriter, coach and former defense attorney, Linda Perry is our guest for the 108th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Linda’s career hasn’t followed the typical marketing to copywriting track. She’s spent time in prisons and courtrooms around the country, honing her skills for empathy and persuasion. Add in serious training as a coach and she’s got plenty of copywriting advice to share. We talked with Linda about: •  how she went from defense attorney to copywriter •  how her legal background makes her a more persuasive copywriter •  her experiment with life coaching and the impact it had on her writing •  the “suitcase” exercise that helps with the next evolutionary leap •  the “one thing” that has helped her uplevel her career •  the run-down on the StoryBrand framework and how it’s 4x-ed her business •  what keeps her focused and on-message •  a deeper look at her on-boarding process •  what her kick-off calls look like and the information she gets there •  how she’s using Instagram and video to get in front of her clients •  the behind-the-scenes with her video creation process •  the questions she’s asking about where her business will go this year •  what’s working for Linda in social media •  the mindset mistakes copywriters are making today •  the “what-if” beliefs that are real and those that aren’t •  what she’s most excited about in her own business This is not an exhaustive list of all the stuff we covered, so you’re going to want to download this to your podcast player to hear it all. Or just click the play button below. If you prefer reading, scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Debbie Ford Marie Forleo Amy Porterfield StoryBrand Zoom The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson Tony Robbins Soul Genius Branding Linda on Instagram Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira:   What if you could hang out was seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, the work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for Episode 108, as we chat with copywriter, brand strategist, and coach, Linda Perry, about why she made the jump from prosecutor to copywriter, the processes she uses to clarify her client's messaging as well as the importance of getting the right mindset and how hidden beliefs can sabotage your success. Kira:   Linda, welcome. Rob:   Hey, Linda. Linda:    Hey guys, thank you for having me. Kira:   I feel like, prosecutor to copywriter that sounds like a podcast. I feel like you should get that started. Rob:   That does sound like a podcast, more than just an interview. Linda:    Right. I hate to burst your bubble guys but I was defense attorney. Rob:   Oh no! We've ruined the intro. Linda:    It doesn't have the same ring to it, too. Kira:   Linda, let's start with your story and how you ended up as a copywriter. Linda:    I definitely don't have traditional path, but I feel like even though I was a defense attorney, the seeds of being a copywriter literally started when I was like six years old. I think I gave every stuffed animal, every Barbie, every car, a story. I was always really wrapped up in the storytelling part of life. I always wanted to be a copywriter but with immigrant parents that we're like, ‘No, no. You need a profession’, I went and became a lawyer. Part of what I loved about being a lawyer was really my paper walk through the door before I did. It was always about telling someone's stories. After 17 years of being a criminal defense attorney, you get tired, you get a little worn out. I really started to think about who is it that I want to be. With a little life coaching background, I pursued life coaching really changed a bit of my beliefs about what I thought had to happen in my life. I recognize that I really love giving people a voice, and I wanted to do it in a different way. I took the leap somewhere around the age of 40, and just decided it was time to pursue what I had always really wanted to do from even being a little kid. It's a bit of a strange road but it's been perfect for me. Kira:   Okay. We've already talked about this before, but we both really loved Barbies growing up, which is now not cool, like it's not PC to say that because Barbies are not in anymore. Rob:   We should clarify just a second, when you say ‘we both’, you're talking about you and Linda, not Kira and Rob because I wasn’t really…. Kira:   No, the three of us have talked about this many times. Yes, Linda and I have talked about this. I want to hear, you glossed over it, but you mentioned that's ... you created these stories around Barbies and other toys growing up. I'm not sure what my question is here, but I want to hear more about that and then how you do that today in your business. Linda:    I think I just ... I had a really active imagination when I was a kid. I just loved giving them a world that they lived in. I wanted to know how they thought, what they were doing, what really made them tick. I can literally remember at the age of six just creating a whole, maybe it's almost like soap opera like where they had this whole community and lived, each of them had their own personality. The way it translates into my life today is that I still think I dig deep into what's driving people. What is it that really, what gives them purpose, what gives them the drive to go after something? I think that translates into the way I approach working with clients or even all my copy or whatever I write. I always think it has its seeds. It made me more creative. I wanted the Barbie upground pool and I didn't get it. I had to really work my way around it. I had to sell myself really on this bucket becoming.... she had a different kind of pool. That’s kind of the way I think Barbie influences me still to this day. Rob:   That's funny. Linda, I'm really interested in the aspect of your career, the legal part of your career and how that's impacted how you write copy, because it seems like there's so many things in law that translates to what we do in copywriting research and writing out either briefs or oral arguments or those kinds of things. How would you say that being an attorney has made you a better copywriter? Linda:    I think in every way. I think about it every day how my process for writing or defending a client is really not that different from really representing someone's brand. I started ... one of the things I loved about being a criminal defense attorney is you had to learn something new every day and you had to learn it fast. One day it was mortgage fraud, one day it was, the next was immigration, or maybe a drug case, but you had to really dive in and understand the process so that you could actually write about it so you could convince somebody of your version of the story. I should say also you had to read a jury. You had to really understand what somebody's thinking, how do you convince somebody? What is it that maybe will impact them the most? That kind of stuff being a trial attorney translates so perfectly into what I do today because it's the same approach. I start out by looking at what really is the problem that your ideal client's facing. What is it that really motivates them? I am really good at standing in that person's shoes because of it, because when you’re a trial attorney, you have to stand in everybody's shoes so you could tell. As my former partner used to say, so you could play the movie for somebody. I still think I do that with my process in that I started out, we're really looking at what's the problem, what motivates somebody, what's really the objections they're going through, and then you research, and then you can finally start to write. I'm always living as that person. I think it really helped being an attorney and it's the perfect transition to what I do today. Rob:   Talk about that transition as well. What were the first copywriting clients like? How did you find them? Did you stop being an attorney and then started being a copywriter? Did you ease into it? What was the transition like? Linda:    I think like a lot of people I had a period of exploration. I didn't hop right into copywriting. I actually went and explored life coaching for a while. I had followed the work of best-selling author, Debbie Ford, and I chose to dive into her program and watched it really change my life. Life coaching gave me the courage to leave law. It was a safe place for me. I was a rock star. I had a great career. Life coaching gave me the courage to start to explore what I loved. What happened though when I became a life coach is that I recognize that about 80% of them fail. I went, ‘Why is that?’ Of course a lawyer had to be like, ‘Well, let's go research that.’ What it really came down to is that a lot of life coaches or people in the wellness industry really don't know how to share what they do in a unique way. I started out slowly with my own brand and I started to really learn what does it take to actually share your message. I would take whosever course I could find and really learn about how do I stand up. I do some of Marie Forleo's work. I just really start slowly in ... I'd follow Amy Porterfield. I would start to follow people and try to understand what it meant to share your message. Then as my business grew with life coaching, a lot of other life coaches came to me and said, ‘How did you do that? Can you help me?’ All of a sudden I found myself writing and helping other coaches and it was ... I was wearing my superwoman cape and thinking, ‘Hey, I could run two businesses at the same time.’ Again getting burnt out,