Holistic design is a term being thrown around, but what does it really entail? Listen as Lou talks with Kerry Bodine, customer experience expert and founder of Kerry Bodine & Co. and author of Outside In, as they discuss how UX designers can benefit by using service design as a framework to create product and customer journeys. Follow Kerry Bodine on Twitter: https://twitter.com/kerrybodine Get your ticket for our virtual conference, The Business Case for Design: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/business-case-for-design/