TCC Podcast #148: Fishing for Better Clients with Robert Skrob

Author, copywriter and member retention specialist, Robert Skrob, is our guest n the 148th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We recently invited Robert to present his unique business model to the members of The Copywriter Think Tank and wanted to share his unique approach to marketing his business with everyone who listens to the podcast. We asked Robert about: •  how he went from working as a book keeper to writing copy for subscription businesses and the advantages his accounting background give him •  how copywriters make our business more complex than it needs to be •  why your marketing should be all about the problem you solve •  Robert’s advice to copywriters choosing a niche •  how he promotes his business today •  the unique approach he used to attract his first big clients (this is worth stealing) •  how he uses his book to attract and qualify clients today •  the kinds of clients copywriters should be trying to attract (sail fish, not brim) •  how Robert pitches long-term projects to his clients •  the mindset issues that keep us from getting the paychecks we want •  what he learned from Dan Kennedy and Bill Glazier •  the ideas you can safely ignore when it comes to “the next new thing” •  positioning yourself as the wizard with the knowledge •  why there is no future in copywriting and what you need to be instead Here we go again, saying this is a great interview. But if you want to attract multiple, high-paying clients to your business,  you could do a lot worse than follow the blue print that Robert lays out in this episode. To hear it, click the play button below, or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. Or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Ultimate Sales Letter by Dan Kennedy David Deutsch Parris Lampropoulos Retention Point by Robert Skrob Bill Glazier Perry Marshall Adam Witty Travis Miller The Bonanza King  Robert’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits? Then, steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for Episode 148 as we chat with author and copywriter, Robert Skrob, about adopting a unique copywriting niche and positioning himself as the industry expert in memberships and subscriptions, the sales formula to outline his recent book, Retention Point, why people join memberships and why they leave, and what it's like to write a book with Dan Kennedy. Hey Robert. Robert:          It's my honor to be here. It took, I guess I'm 148 on the list of the most interesting copywriters to talk to. Rob:   You're way above that. But, we just haven't been able to get with you. You're so busy. Kira:   That's true. Rob:   With a such a great business. It's amazing to have you here though. Thank you so much for being here. Robert:          I'm honored. I don't hang out at copywriting events or speak at those things, but I certainly see copywriters struggle and become very frustrated. So hopefully, we can share some ideas that can help simplify this whole business for everybody. Kira:   Sounds great. Well, let's start with your story first. How did you end up as a copywriter? Robert:          Actually, back in 1993, I was an accountant at a public accounting firm and hated it. I was there three months and left, took a job as a bookkeeper for a company that did consulting with non-profit associations, and I ended up buying that company about five years later. So, I had 20 associations that I was responsible for doing membership marketing, event marketing, sponsorship sales, and I needed to know how to get this stuff sold. I ran across Dan Kennedy about '96 and found his how to write a sales letter book. I can remember sitting at my living room coffee table going through that book chapter by chapter writing my first sales letter ever and editing it and getting it out. So, for a number of a years, for the clients that we were working with, I was writing offers for membership sales, selling sponsorships, selling exhibits, and even in some political campaigns. So, it gave me a very quick practice in how to write because I was writing to movers to get them to join. I was writing to motorcycle dealers, to different types of doctors, dermatologists, OB-GYNs, pain medicine doctors, anesthesiologists, and then occupational therapists and geologists, all different types of people. So, it helped me really understand. They'd say you've got to learn what the insider language is of the niche and learn what they're thinking. That experience really helped me learn that. I started doing some freelance copywriting. The date may be wrong, but I think '03, '04. Then, I also started sharing what I was doing with Dan back then, and I joined his coaching group and started participating. He said, ‘You know what, Robert? You ought to start sharing what you're doing with associations with some of these for-profit information marketing businesses.’ I go, ‘Oh, Dan. I'm just copying your formula to the association world.’ He's like, ‘Yeah, you ought to try to show them.’ So anyway, we did, and I sold a how to create an association product. This is a little bit of a long story, but we created an information marketing association and built that membership. I sold it in 2012. Then, that left me with the figure out what was next, so I started going back to the copywriting route. But, I knew that for me as a copywriter, I didn't feel like I was interested in competing with the top dogs. Just like, ‘Look at that.’ I'd go, ‘Man, there's just no way I care to go head to head with a David Deutsch or a Parris Lampropoulos or any of those guys.’ Why would I compete there? Where can I go that is never going to get their interest that I can have my own business? So, after a couple of iterations, I figured out that this whole membership thing was a great place to be. So, I started building essentially what, between us, we could call a copywriting practice, but the clients, I don't ever use that word. So, we created a nice little business out of that. Rob:   It's definitely a good story. So, just to make sure I heard you right. Your background was in accounting and bookkeeping, not necessarily writing. Robert:          Well actually, I still have my CPA license, so yes, at heart, a bookkeeper accountant. Rob:   So, yeah. So, that's interesting to me. Are there things from bookkeeping or accounting that are applicable to what you do as a copywriter, or is it more even maybe in understanding the business and the numbers to help you do things specifically, or have you kind of turned away from that and really focused in on the marketing side? Robert:          I do think it helps me, in particular, in the math portion of the business. So, when I'm looking at a membership business, not only am I able to look at the copy and go, ‘Yeah, I think I can do better than this.’ But, I can also help them calculate what a percentage improvement would mean to their bottom line. So, very often, when I am doing a diagnosis of a business, I'll have their numbers. So, in a membership, you have some sort of number, your lead acquisition. You have converting leads into maybe a trial member. You have trial conversion. You have 30-day onboarding conversion. Then, you've got a long term retention and a retention rate monthly. Maybe you're even looking at an annual renewal, and so you've got first year renewal and then, your renewals after that. So, by being able to be comfortable with numbers, I'm able to take the numbers they have, and if we're looking at improving the trial conversion rate, I can show, ‘Oh, okay. If we improve your trial conversion from 45% to 50%, that's going to mean X dollars to your bottom line, and you're not spending any more money on marketing. We're just simply making the marketing you do more effective.’ So, it has helped me demonstrate a return on investment for the copywriting services. Kira:   Okay, so before we started officially recording, you said something that really stood out to me. You said that you hung out with several copywriters. You weren't necessarily teaching copywriters. You don't want to be a copywriter guru, but you've noticed that many copywriters make this complicated, like we just make business and finding clients really complicated, more complicated than it needs to be. Can you talk a little bit about that, and why you don't call yourself a copywriter, and how you've seen copywriters make things a little bit more complicated than they need to be? Robert:          Sure. Really, it's applying copywriting principles to your own silly business of selling copywriting services. One of the things I've figured out is okay, with a business owner, if they have a problem that needs my solution. They need copy. They need marketing. They need marketing strategy. So, what are the symptoms of that? Well, they've decreased business. Their cost of marketing goes up. Their sales go down. What is the most natural thing for a person in that situation to do? Well, slice the marketing and advertising budgets, cut costs so that they're still making the same amount money, even as their revenue decreases. Well, geez. They're not thinking, ‘Oh, boy. Let me go find a copywriter somewhere. Let me search for a copywriter.’ If anything, it's like a marketing agency. A copywriter isn't the thing that they're looking for. Most likely, they're going to search for something along the lines of increasing leads, or a few of them will think of conversion, even that number.