Recycle. Upcycle. Bicycle.

Look, most of us really want to be good, ethical people. We want to make the world a better place. We want our clothes to be sustainably made by people receiving fair wages. We don't want the ocean to be full of plastic islands. And we'd rather chickens roamed free of cages.

But the complexities of our modern, globalized world make being a good person more difficult than ever. Honestly, it can feel overwhelming! And discouraging! Katelyn and Roxy talk with Sandra Maria Van Opstal, a longtime activist dedicated to disrupting oppressive systems, about how to pursue a lifestyle of justice without losing your sanity.

Plus: A round of 'Do-Gooder Jeopardy'

GUEST

Sandra Maria Van Opstal is a second-generation Latina pastor, activist and author and the executive director of Chasing Justice, a BIPOC-led movement that mobilizes Christians to live justly. Sandra is the author of The Next Worship, as well as contributor to the New York Times bestselling book A Rhythm of Prayer.

When Did Being Good Get So Dang Hard? + Sandra Maria Van Opstal