Clint Smith is a man deeply interested in the contrasts and complexities of the human experience. Be it in his professional life as the author of the acclaimed New York Times bestselling narrative nonfiction book How the Word Is Passed: A Reckoning with the History of Slavery, or in his personal life as an often-humbled father to two young children, Smith is constantly considering how experiences shape us as people. “Parenthood is the most remarkable, awe-inspiring experience of your life,” Smith says, “and it’s also the most fear-inducing, humbling, and exhausting. It’s the most revealing about the parts of yourself that you’re most proud of, and most ashamed of.” On this episode of Paternal, Smith discusses his early days as a father, why even our best moments as parents exist alongside instances of shame, humility, and fear, and how we can hold gratitude and despair in the same hands. Smith is a staff writer at The Atlantic and the author of Above Ground, a new collection of poems focused on fatherhood, available March 28.

Learn more about Paternal and sign up for our newsletter at www.paternalpodcast.com. You can also email host Nick Firchau at nick@paternalpodcast.com with any comments or suggestions for men he should profile on the show. Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts or wherever you’re listening, then keep an eye on your feed for new episodes.