American Christian Nationalism and the Way of Jesus (Caleb E. Campbell) Ep. #185
Jan 30, 2025
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Caleb E. Campbell, an author and pastor, dives deep into the heart of Christian nationalism, exploring its driving anxieties, like the fear of pluralism and the search for stability. He challenges the notion that supporters are driven by hatred, suggesting instead a longing for belonging. The conversation emphasizes the importance of hospitality, compassion, and curiosity in engaging differing views. Campbell also shares insights from his book 'Disarming Leviathan', advocating for scripture-centered dialogue as a means to connect and transform even amid political divides.
Christian nationalism often stems from deep anxieties, revealing a desire for stability and safety in a rapidly changing world.
The blend of Christian values with conservative politics can dilute the core teachings of Jesus, leading to ethical challenges for leaders.
Engaging with Christian nationalists requires humility and hospitality, emphasizing curiosity and scripture-centered dialogue over confrontational debates.
Deep dives
The Nature of American Christian Nationalism
American Christian nationalism emphasizes a desire for Christians to hold positions of power and influence in government, driven by the belief that the teachings of Jesus represent the best moral framework. Advocates often highlight a strong work ethic and community care as cornerstones of their national identity. However, the underlying challenge lies not in the intention but in the means used to achieve these goals, as the movement often intertwines with conservative politics. This blend can dilute the original, Jesus-centered values that many followers genuinely wish to promote.
The Complexities of National Identity
The discussion highlights the complexity of national identity, touching on how love for one's homeland can lead to feelings of homesickness when abroad and the longing for familiarity. Yet, this sentiment can transform into a belief that one's own culture is superior, which fuels an unhealthy form of nationalism. The example of C.S. Lewis's concept of patriotism illustrates that love for a nation should be rooted in a broader love that extends to all people, rather than promoting an exclusionary mindset. This narrative reflects the dangers of conflating personal cultural affinity with a sense of national superiority.
Cognitive Exhaustion and the Desire for Simplicity
Many individuals express a longing to return to a simpler past as a reaction to the cognitive exhaustion that comes with engaging in diverse cultural contexts. This yearning hints at a deeper desire for comfort and familiarity amidst growing pluralism, which can lead to anxiety and defensiveness towards differing cultures. Christian nationalism may then emerge as a misguided solution, presenting itself as a means to regain a sense of stability and control. The need for cognitive rest highlights the challenges faced by those navigating an increasingly diverse society.
The Misuse of Power in Leadership
The conversation delves into the ethical challenges faced by leaders, particularly Christian leaders, when wielding worldly power. The potential for even well-meaning Christian leaders to succumb to the temptations of power reveals the inherent difficulties in aligning secular governance with Christ-like values. Historical examples, including the political missteps of various leaders, illustrate how decisions made under pressure might result in outcomes contrary to the teachings of Jesus. This raises critical questions about what it means to lead faithfully in contexts where moral choices are complicated and the definition of good leadership is often contested.
Engaging with Different Perspectives
The approach to engaging with those who identify as Christian nationalists necessitates humility and a willingness to listen. Recognizing that their political views may stem not from malice but from fear and a desire for security can foster deeper, more meaningful conversations. Encouraging an atmosphere of hospitality, where open dialogue is prioritized over confrontational debates, allows for true connections to be established. This strategy emphasizes that understanding and kindness can build bridges, ultimately inviting all parties to reconsider their beliefs in the light of scripture and community.
What if Christian nationalism isn’t a head problem but a heart problem? In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. Dru Johnson speaks with Caleb Campbell, author of Disarming Leviathan, about the rise of Christian nationalism in America and how Christians can engage this movement missionally rather than combatively.
Campbell discusses the anxieties that drive people to embrace Christian nationalism, highlighting the fear of pluralism, the longing for safety, and the allure of worldly power. Drawing from his experience as a pastor and cultural observer, he argues that many Christian nationalists are not inherently motivated by hatred but by a deep desire for rest and stability in a changing world.
The conversation delves into themes of hospitality, humble subversion, and the transformative power of the cross, challenging listeners to rethink how they approach those with opposing views. Campbell offers practical steps for engaging Christian nationalists, emphasizing the need for curiosity, safety, and scripture-centered dialogue.
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction
00:03 Exploring the Good Impulses of Christian Nationalism
10:18 The Dilemma of Power: Christian Leadership in Politics
23:22 Christian Nationalism: Ideology and Identity
32:23 The Means vs. The Ends: A Christian Perspective on Power
33:25 The Call for Unity and Protection
34:26 Christian Nationalism: A Critical Examination
35:22 Navigating Leadership as a Christian
36:44 The Role of Scripture in Decision Making
38:57 The Complexity of Power Dynamics
39:54 The Dilemma of Political Engagement
42:48 The Duality of Christian Identity
44:41 The Dangers of Christian Nationalism
47:39 Personal Experiences with Christian Nationalism
51:11 A Shift in Perspective: From Combat to Mission
54:43 Practical Steps for Engagement
57:47 Creating Safe Spaces for Dialogue
01:00:30 The Importance of Humility in Conversations
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