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Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal
Diana Pasulka on Religion, Atheism, Heidegger, Jung, and the Dark Night of the Soul #DisTOEsure
May 19, 2022
03:19:42
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Quick takeaways
- Beliefs in religion and extraterrestrial phenomena can be subjective practices that do not necessarily correspond with objective reality.
- Atheism itself can resemble a form of religion with its own dogmas and exclusionary tendencies.
- Religious individuals are more open to the idea of UFOs and extraterrestrial encounters compared to atheists or those without religious beliefs.
- Having a supportive community is crucial for coping with epistemic and ontological shock and navigating the dark night of the soul.
- Discernment, a term used in the Catholic tradition, can encompass practices like remote viewing in the context of UFO research.
Deep dives
Religion and Unexplainable Experiences
In this podcast episode, Diana Walsh Posulka, a professor of religious studies, discusses the connection between religion and unexplainable experiences. She explores how humans deal with strange phenomena and shares her own journey from skepticism to agnostic belief. The conversation delves into the variety of beliefs and practices within different religions, highlighting that religion is not a monolithic entity. Posulka also discusses the rise of interest in UFOs and how it can be seen as a form of religiosity, where transformative experiences and behavior changes are common.
Beliefs and Rationality
The conversation explores the nature of beliefs and their relationship with rationality. Posulka explains that beliefs in religion and extraterrestrial phenomena can be subjective practices and behaviors that do not necessarily correspond with objective reality. She highlights that atheists, like believers, can have unconscious beliefs and that atheism itself can sometimes resemble a form of religion with its own dogmas and exclusionary tendencies. The discussion also touches on the secularization thesis and the rise of atheism, questioning the assumption that more enlightened societies should naturally gravitate towards atheism.
Science, Woo, and Patterns
Posulka and the host address the criticisms of the validity of practices like meditation, psychodelics, or belief in UFOs by skeptics who consider them as 'woo' without objective evidence. They argue that patterns can be observed in these practices, but the interpretation varies based on individual belief systems. The conversation emphasizes the need to investigate these practices and patterns without dismissing them solely based on societal norms or preconceived notions. They also discuss the importance of understanding the role of the body in transformative experiences and creativity.
Different interpretations of dogma within the Catholic Church
Dogmas within the Catholic Church are beliefs that all Catholics are expected to hold as true. One example is the belief in purgatory. While purgatory is still considered a dogma, it is not actively practiced in the same way as before. The concept of dogma can change over time, and the Catholic Church has mechanisms for updating dogma.
Heidegger's views on technology and its relation to religion
Heidegger, a philosopher, believed that technology would become the new sacred in modern society. He saw technology as shaping our relationship with the world and profoundly influencing our way of life. He suggested that technology was becoming our new infrastructure and would determine our existence and understanding of the world.
The connection between religion and UFO studies
In the world of UFO studies, many researchers and experiencers have a background in religion, particularly Catholicism. Many religious individuals are open to the idea of extraterrestrial life and non-human intelligence because they already have belief systems that accommodate such concepts. This acceptance of the possibility of UFOs and extraterrestrial encounters is more common among religious individuals compared to atheists or those without religious beliefs.
Epistemic and ontological shock
During a weekend in 2012, the speaker experienced a profound epistemic and ontological shock. This was triggered by researching the UFO phenomenon and delving into primary source material of Catholic history. The realization of the current reality of UFOs and encountering people who shared this concern was deeply unsettling. This destabilizing experience lasted for the entire weekend, leading to a state of de-stabilization. However, the speaker had a foundation to fall back on, having studied religion extensively. Familiar with concepts such as the dark night of the soul and drawing insight from Catholic and Buddhist teachings, the speaker found solace in having a support system and understanding that others had gone through similar experiences.
Finding solace in the songa
Having a community or 'songa' plays a crucial role in coping with epistemic and ontological shock. The speaker emphasizes the importance of surrounding oneself with people who have been through similar experiences, offering understanding and support. Drawing a parallel with philosopher Karl Jaspers and his study of Friedrich Nietzsche, the speaker highlights the importance of having a supportive and understanding community during times of existential crisis. By sharing one's journey and finding solace in the collective wisdom, one can navigate the dark night of the soul and emerge with a stronger sense of self and purpose.
The importance of community in spiritual awakening
The podcast episode discusses the significance of having a community or sangha in the process of spiritual awakening. The speaker shares personal experiences and insights, highlighting that being in the company of like-minded individuals who share similar values and beliefs can be helpful and supportive. The podcast explores how community can provide a sense of belonging, guidance, and encouragement as one navigates through the spiritual journey.
Discernment and the relationship between religion and UFOs
The podcast delves into the concept of discernment, a term used in the Catholic tradition to refer to the ability to perceive or gain knowledge beyond the ordinary senses. The conversation explores the relevance of discernment in the context of UFO research and the phenomenon. The speaker explains that discernment can encompass practices like remote viewing, which allows individuals to access information beyond what is perceptible by normal means. Additionally, the episode touches on the intersections between religion, spirituality, and the exploration of UFOs, emphasizing that religious traditions often have existing frameworks to accommodate the possibility of extraterrestrial beings or non-human intelligences.
64.
Is There Any Relationship Between Curswile's Technological Singularity and the Omega Point?
2min
YouTube link: https://youtu.be/E5MuTHUbMUs
Professor of Religion Diana Pasulka discusses Jung, Heidegger, and the recent UFO hearings
Sponsors
-Brilliant: https://brilliant.org/TOE for 20% off
Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal
Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802
Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverything
Merch: https://tinyurl.com/TOEmerch
LINKS MENTIONED:
-American Cosmic (Diana's book): https://amzn.to/3MsaOmI
-American Cosmic (Diana's book): https://amzn.to/3FWYCaW
-Fatima Trilogy (a book Diana references): https://amzn.to/3wDGoao
-Dark Night of the Soul podcast (with Chloe Valdary interviewing Curt): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtfJ20TNpNU
-Karl Friston podcast (most important TOE podcast): https://youtu.be/SWtFU1Lit3M
-Thomas Campbell on TOE: https://youtu.be/kko-hVA-8IU is part 1 and part 2 is also on the channel.
-Tupacabra Twitter: https://twitter.com/TUPACABRA2
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:03:24 Diana's journey from "atheist" ⇒ "agnostic" (with respect to the phenomenon)
00:07:17 Nuns who saw orbs, every night, then prayed...
00:11:45 What are "beliefs"?
00:12:27 Atheists who believe in God
00:19:50 Spiritual vs Religious (and the Secularization thesis)
00:22:58 UFOs (or the belief in) are like a religion
00:29:37 Psychedelics and religion
00:37:01 Getting flack because of covering the phenomenon
00:39:42 To the skeptics: it's rational to believe in UFOs
00:47:38 Atheism is NOT like a religion, though it can be dogmatic
00:49:18 It's false to say "religions tell you what to think"
00:55:03 The case for dogma
01:01:06 Heidegger on technology not being just another tool
01:06:04 Heidegger and Jacques Vallée
01:10:03 Why do those who study the phenomenon tend to be Catholic?
01:13:49 How the Vatican views UFOs
01:15:12 Are religious stories interpreting UFOs, or are we interpreting UFOs materialistically?
01:20:05 Near Death Experiences, UFOs, and Dean Radin
01:22:35 How the CIA / DOD / etc. work (the nefarious strategies)
01:26:57 What Diana uncovered, that she shouldn't have
01:29:45 Roswell and the Promethean myth
01:31:10 The dangers (and reality) of CE5
01:33:48 Bob Lazar is considered credible by many, behind the scenes
01:36:02 Protecting yourself against disinformation
01:38:08 Academic Openness vs. Governmental Closedness
01:42:39 SpaceX, and writing in Latin for "them"
01:48:18 The president is a "short timer" (this is why he / she isn't told the truth)
01:49:02 Who is Tyler? Why is he significant?
01:50:48 Does the gov't believe they understand what's behind UFOs?
01:52:01 We're dealing with MULTIPLE phenomenon, not just one
01:52:51 Biblically accurate angels
01:55:26 Physical evidence pertaining to purgatory
01:57:36 What's the point in collocating UFOs with religion?
02:02:10 Who is the modern Heidegger?
02:05:21 Jung and UFOs
02:08:00 Plato's Cave and the view that certain people have shackled us
02:12:54 Sangha as The Answer to deception
02:18:46 Rediscovering meaning, Heidegger, Weinstein, and the TOE project
02:22:09 Experiential vs Analytical approach to understanding God
02:24:52 Lovecraft, and the perils of an "open mind"
02:27:14 Epistermic Shock vs Ontological Shock
02:38:10 The importance of Sangha
02:41:21 [Juliano Vargas] Reconciling religion with ET (and does ET believe in a Supreme Creator?)
02:42:15 [Numb Her Two] How has Diana's faith been affected?
02:44:27 Why does the Hitchhiker effect occur?
02:45:32 Angels... Demons... What is the THIRD (religiously interpreted) option?
02:46:45 Rosicrucianism and Gnosticism
02:50:52 Kurzweil's Singularity / Omega Point / UAPs
02:55:14 Jung and the UFO archetype (continued)
02:56:10 UFO hearings (May 2022)
03:00:23 [Tupacabra] Catholic Church, Remote Viewing, Thomas Campbell, and Jacques Vallée
03:05:54 Podcasts being sanctioned behind the scenes for disclosure #DisTOEsure
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