A Very Smart Conversation About Fantasy (and Romance) with Leigh Bardugo

Nov 12, 2025

Leigh Bardugo, bestselling author known for her hit series like Shadow and Bone, joins the chat to explore the intricacies of fantasy and YA literature. She shares insights on how genre shapes identities for teen readers and the importance of immersive worlds. Bardugo discusses her new picture book, touching on themes of grief and cultural heritage. The conversation dives into the role of complex emotions in YA, the marketing of romances, and why female-targeted fantasy often includes difficult subjects. It's a thought-provoking look at storytelling's power.

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INSIGHT

Magic As Power And Access

Leigh Bardugo frames her books as explorations of magic as power and access rather than mere spectacle.
Her recurring theme is people deemed expendable carving out power and place in unjust systems.

ANECDOTE

College Taught Her The Code Of Access

Leigh describes college as learning a secret language of class and code that created lasting anxiety about fitting in.
She based Ninth House's Alex on that outsider feeling and the need to accept difference to navigate elite spaces.

ANECDOTE

Picture Book Started With One Pitch

Leigh recounts how The Invisible Parade began after John Picascio pitched 'Wizard of Oz set in a graveyard.'
The idea turned grief into an adventure that reconnects a grieving girl with the living through encounters in the cemetery.

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I love books with complicated lore. I love plots that interrogate the way power accumulates and spoils — particularly but not exclusively on Ivy League campuses. I love it when a character learns of UNKNOWN POWERS, and I love a good heist. Which means I fell in love with Leigh Bardugo's books immediately. My favorite is Ninth House (and its sequel, Hell Bent) but she is equally well-known for the Shadow and Bone series and the duology Six of Crows, which was just re-released for its tenth anniversary... all of which pop up all over the Culture Study reading rec threads whenever we have them.

So imagine my surprise when Leigh's team heard that Culture Study loved Leigh's work and would we like to have Leigh come on the show? YES, OF COURSE. And listen, I knew this conversation was gonna be great. But I didn't realize it was gonna be this great. We talk about genre, marketing, all the nerdy books she read as a teen, how to think about YA and exposure to the things that scare us, and, of course, whether there's gonna be a follow-up to Hell Bent. As always, we've worked hard to make this conversation interesting to people who aren't familiar with Leigh's work — all you have to be is interested in books, just generally — but if you're a fan, you're really gonna love it.

Side Note: We're experimenting with producing our own (very imperfect) transcripts. You can find it here. If there's enough demand, we might consider putting in the not insignificant labor to make these super readable — but for now, they're a backup to the podcast, not a replacement for it.

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Show Notes:

Find all of Leigh's books at Bookshop — and here's how you can buy the new edition of Six of Crows
Subscribe to Leigh's newsletter here
Find out more about Leigh's work just generally here; I personally loved this profile in Alta
Leigh references: The Dragonlance Chronicles, the Louise Erdrich short story "Fleur" which was printed in Esquire but can now be found in Tracks
I reference Linda Williams' groundbreaking work on melodrama as a mode
I reference our episode with Sarah MacLean where we talk about how romance writers first books are often their best (and why)
Just in case you somehow don't know about Bunnicula

We're currently looking for your questions for future episodes about:

Eldest daughter discourse
The sociology of NAMES (naming trends, naming assumptions)
WEIRD ENGLISH WORDS (where do they come from!) with Colin Gorrie, who writes explainers like this one on the word DOG
Anything you need advice or want musings on for the AAA segment. You can ask about anything, it’s literally the name of the segment
As always, you can submit them (and ideas for future eps) here

For this week’s discussion: What's your favorite Leigh Bardugo book? OR OBVIOUSLY ANYTHING ELSE! Like how do you think about being exposed to 'scary' ideas as a younger reader?