Jennifer Garvey Berger’s three key insights: connectivity matters more than individual talent in complex systems; small experiments beat both over-planning and paralysis; and stories are legitimate measures of change before numbers shift.

If you've ever had a change plan that hasn't quite gone according to plan (and honestly, who hasn't?), this conversation with Jennifer Garvey Berger will shift how you think about leading transformation. She's spent three decades figuring out what actually works when everything feels unpredictable and out of control.

Jennifer challenges the "all-star team" approach most of us default to. Instead, she argues for building networks of diverse perspectives because you can't predict whose viewpoint will matter most until after the fact.

She also makes the case for experiments so small they feel almost trivial – like fancy lunches that generated $10 million in revenue. The key is making them smaller than you think, more fun than traditional initiatives, and designed specifically for learning rather than guaranteed success.

And here's something that might surprise you: Jennifer suggests that rumors and stories are often the first real indicators of change, long before your metrics show anything. In human systems, shifting narratives actually is real change.

This isn't about lighting incense and appreciating each other's light within. It's practical wisdom for navigating complexity without losing your mind.

Change Signal. Where ambitious leaders find modern change mastery. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works.

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