[PREVIEW] Should We Reclaim the Swim Dress?

You’re listening to Burnt Toast!

We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay, and it’s time for your May Indulgence Gospel. And because it is Fat Swim Week, we are doing an entire swim-themed episode for you!

We’ll get into:

• Can we reclaim the swim dress? (But do we want to?)

• Why is the Lands End swimsuit website SO bad?

• How to get sunscreen in impossible-to-reach spots?

• Why does Corinne hate flip flops?

• Even more thoughts on visible pubic hair.

And so much more about how to show up fat at the pool or beach this summer and have an absolute blast.

This is a paywalled episode. That means to hear the whole thing you’ll need to be a paid Burnt Toast subscriber. Subscriptions are $5 per month or $50 for the year.

If you’re already a paid subscriber, you can add on a subscription to Big Undies, Corinne’s new Substack about clothes, for 20% off.

You’re absolutely going to want to read yesterday’s Swimsuit Science roundup as a companion to this episode.

This transcript contains affiliate links. Shopping our links is another great way to support Burnt Toast!

Episode 145 Transcript

Corinne

We’re going to dive right into the questions. 

Virginia

No pants chat this time. We’ve got swimsuit chat to get to. 

Corinne

The first question is one that we got a lot of iterations of, and it’s basically about boobs.

I need a swimsuit rec for chasing kids around the beach that I don’t have to tug on, adjust and feel like I’m going to spill out of?

Virginia

There were so many versions of this one: How do I get any decent boob support? How do I play at the pool with my kids without my boobs falling out? This is the peak mom swim question, I think, assuming you are a person with boobs.

And it’s really hard because so many of the swimsuits and especially swimsuits marketed for plus size— we were just looking at Nicole Byer’s super cute line—are very cleavage forward. It’s let’s make fat women look very sexy at the pool, which I’m here for… but not when I’m at the pool with my kids, or my parents. It’s just not everybody’s vibe all the time.

Corinne

The other thing I noticed when I was trying to research this a little bit was it seems like there are a bunch of swim lines that are designed for larger cup sizes for straight-size people. But it was much harder to find large cup sizes for plus sizes.

Virginia

Which, the plight of the DDD cup size 2 woman—I see how that’s a clothing challenge. But the world was built for your body in a lot of ways. 

Corinne

Aren’t there entire magazines dedicated to photographing you?

Virginia

Exactly. If your band size is 38 and up, it gets a lot trickier. 

My number one hack for this is wearing a sports bra as a swimsuit top and then wearing a high waisted swim bottom. I think it’s cute. I tend to do solid colored sports bras plus a bottom in a fun print. So it feels like there’s still some style, but the top is just going to be so much more supportive. 

Because underwire swim bra tops are just not built like bras. I don’t really understand why. The bra companies know how to make bras, so you would think they could make swimsuit tops, but they can’t. They can make sexy swimsuit tops, but not hold-you-in swimsuit tops.

So I tend to wear these sports bras from Girlfriend Collective. I have them in a couple colors, like black, navy blue, light blue. I also have a now-defunct Target sports bra that’s really great, in a hot pink. And they tend to dry just as fast as swimsuits do. That’s kind of my go to for this.

Corinne

Yeah, that’s a good tip. I was thinking, if I were going to be in a situation where I needed to chase a child around a pool or the beach—

Virginia

Corinne is marked safe from chasing children. You can just be sexy all the time at the pool.

Corinne

Yeah, my top goal. But even if I were fully clothed, I would want to be wearing a sports bra.

Virginia

Exactly. Like, what would I wear to a playground or a trampoline park? Which, by the way, is my hellscape of parenting. I try to never go to them. But were I to go, I would definitely be wearing a sports bra. 

Similarly, bike shorts can be great for this. Take your workout clothes, is what we’re saying. Whatever you would work out in in the summer, you can probably swim in it, because it’s probably not that much clothing and that many layers.

Corinne

We also got a nice reader rec for this.

It doesn’t have to be sold as swimwear for it to work as swimwear. After years thinking the perfect swim top would be a sports bra, I just wore a sports bra as a swim top.

And they recommend getting a bra with a zip front.

Virginia

That is super smart. I have gotten kind of trapped in a wet sports bra before. I saw SuperFit Hero makes a cute zip up swimsuit top that feels like it has very sports bra quality to it. That’s a great option. 

The other brand we can talk about here is the brand we got tons of recs for. And I own many of their swimsuits. Land’s End is kind of a go-to for the mom suit.

I will say their website is an absolute dumpster fire. They shoot all of  the swimsuits on I think it’s a CGI model. It’s not a human being. It’s just photoshopped, one swimsuit after another on the same model that is not a human. It’s very disorienting. 

Corinne

Every time I go to the website, it takes forever to load. You find one product and then you have to find the same one in plus sizes to order. It’s so confusing.

Virginia

It’s definitely more desktop friendly than phone friendly. This is one to do on your computer. Set aside some time. Have a snack. You’re going to be on the Land’s End website for a while, and it’s not going to be great.

The best Land’s End ever did was a Draper James collab, which is Reese Witherspoon’s line. That gave us a couple of seasons of very cute plus size swimwear. There was all this gingham and fun colorblocking. And unfortunately that line is almost sold out! I’m always still stalking to see if any new pieces will come out and they haven’t. The styling has never been quite as good since then. 

But I will say if you want, like, a basic black swimsuit, whether you need a one piece, a tankini, a skirt option, a shorts option—they do all of it. And it will last forever. You will be passing this swimsuit down to your daughter. It’s industrial quality. So I have bought lots of pieces from them just because I know they do hold up. 

Corinne

Worth notig that it goes to a 3x 24/26 and it’s definitely not the biggest 24/26 I’ve ever seen.

Virginia

No, definitely not. I mean swim in general tends to run small. I have made the mistake of sizing up for swimwear to be comfortable and then when you get in the water it ends up too big. So I do think this is an argument for, if it feels tight when you put it on, that might be okay once you’re swimming in it. But yeah, they definitely need to expand past 3x for sure.

Corinne

Alright, the next question was another super popular one.

Would love any swimwear recs for suits / bottoms that don’t necessitate / encourage shaving your pubic line. Suits with a traditional bottom cut and a skirt over the top don’t count. Thanks.

If you can cover this, would love to just wear a suit without having to even think about whether to remove hair or not. 

Virginia

Oh, my God, I feel you. Me too. I would love this. 

I don’t know why we’re throwing out the traditional bottoms with a skirt over the top. I think that might be one of the options we have to explore here. I just want to keep it in the mix is all I’m saying. I understand the resistance to it. But I think you have to keep it in the mix.

Corinne

The thing I want to say about swim dresses is I feel like they do get a really bad rap for being just like this ugly mom thing.

Virginia

The sad fat lady option.

Corinne

But I feel like there are some cuter ones now?

Virginia

Yes! I do think the styling has improved. If you’re gonna go this route, don’t get a tropical print. What we’re all thinking of is the tropical print like the purple and teal swirl design. Look for good solid colors. Which is not to say fat people have to wear black—that’s another thing we get told. But there’s something very chic about a well-fitting black swimsuit that a well-fitting tropical print swimsuit can never quite achieve for you. But maybe there’s a great cobalt blue or kelly green or raspberry? So, I think we can’t throw the swim skirt out too fast.

Corinne

I think your options are either a swim skirt/dress or shorts. Like bike shorts or swim shorts.

Virginia

Or board shorts. 

Corinne

I do think there are a lot of cute swim short options now.

Virginia

There’s a style that gets called boy short which I never really understand why we call it boy short. But it’s much shorter than a bike short. Depending on how your body hair grows, you can probably get away without shaving with that. We should also hold space that some people don’t care about this and are happy to have their pubic hair be visible and I support you. 

Corinne

I have body hair privilege.

Virginia

Can you explain your body hair privilege?

Corinne

 I just don’t have a lot of body hair. It’s honestly to the point where I feel self conscious about it sometimes. I don’t have a lot of armpit hair. It’s purely genetic, neither of my parents have a lot of body hair. I do not need to shave my legs. 

Virginia

What you need to know is neither of my parents have a lot of body hair either. And something happened. 

Corinne

Wow. Fascinating. 

Virginia

Because I have all the body hair, for everybody. So I feel you, fellow hairy people. It is such a hard thing to decide, do I just want to embrace this?

I am privileged to have a pool at my house. So do I worry about my body hair when I’m swimming with my kids in my pool at my house? Absolutely not. But if people are coming over, if I’m going to a public place… Like, I can be pro we don’t remove body here and also pro I don’t want to share my pubic hair with the town. That’s a level of intimacy I don’t feel I’m on with all of the PTA moms.

So it’s a really annoying one. And hair removal is expensive and fucks with your skin and it’s incredibly gendered labor that not everybody is expected to do and I hate it. I hate it a lot. 

Corinne

What is your solution?

Virginia

I have waxed for a long time because I get really bad rashes with shaving. I have pretty sensitive skin. But the waxer that I love around here just moved to England. So now I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m bereft but also I’m like, oh, maybe I just don’t do this for a while. But does that mean only swim skirts forever? I don’t know. 

Corinne

I just want to mention some shorts options. I know Alder Apparel and Universal Standard both have quick dry shorts. I have the Alder Apparel ones and I love them and I wear them in my regular life as shorts. There are also the sort of more nonbinary swimsuit style of it’s a tank on top and shorts on the bottom that you can get from like TomboyX or there’s another brand called Beefcake Swimwear that both have that style. Good American also has swim shorts.

Virginia

Oh, yeah, that is a cute style. Maybe I need to try this.

Corinne

Yeah, TomboyX has a lot of cute colors. And then I’ve also been seeing some swim rompers making the rounds, which are like kind of a looser thing in that similar style.

Virginia

It’s this thing of like, we shouldn’t be ashamed of our bodies. We’re allowed to be there. Bodies are just bodies. We’d all be better off if there was way less squeamishness around this. And, if I’m going to see the guy who also teaches my kids ukulele lesson, do I need to know him in that way?

Corinne

Well, and back to the question about like tugging and stuff, sometimes it’s more comfortable to just not have to think about it. 

Virginia

The next question is:

Need a plus size around a 3x wetsuit recommendations for a client who is participating in an upcoming open water swim.

Wetsuits are torture. I’m sorry, they’re so hard to fit. I’ve only had bad experiences wearing them and I have nothing to share. 

Corinne

Yeah, this question is a real bummer because there are so few options. I was remembering that I had seen a plus size wetsuit brand. And then when I went to find them, they’re closing. So there was a brand called Truli that was doing wetsuits—and by plus size, up to a size 24. They’re closing, they’re sold out of plus sizes. They do have a Facebook group where people buy and resell and trade so you could check there.

Virginia

Oh, thats good to check out.

Corinne

There is a person on instagram named Kanoa Green who is a plus size surfer adventure person. I think she’s based in Hawaii. And I think she has some recommendations for plus size wetsuits. One of the brands is 124 West, they go up to a 4x but the 4x is like a 47 inch chest. 

There’s also Wetsuit Wearhouse, they have men’s wetsuits that go up to a 54 inch chest, but it’s going to be for a tall person.

Virginia

Yeah. Checking men’s make sense, except wet suits need to fit you pretty specifically. And if it’s too long, it’s going to drag down on you in the water and you’re going to be drowning in this thing.

Corinne

Yes. I did find a couple of other things that we can link to in the transcript. I found one on Amazon. No idea how good it is. And then a brand in the UK selling wet suits called Tri Suits. They have one called the Yonda wetsuit that goes up to like 330 pounds—because a lot of them are by weight—and a 55 inch chest. So that’s pretty generous. But, um, yeah, kind of a bummer. And if people have other recommendations, please share them.

Virginia

This feels like one of those eternal anti-fat barriers that we need to keep dismantling. Because when you think about the culture of triathlons and other events that would have open water swims, there’s so much anti fatness, so much focus on thinness. And then when we get these questions like, why don’t fat people work out more? Like oh, yeah, maybe the sport is not accessible. It’s so aggravating.

Corinne

It is a bummer. The next question is

I’m really curious about pregnant people and finding swimsuits during and after pregnancy. I hate the thought of buying a suit that might only fit for a few weeks and then never wear it again. How would you recommend approaching this as a small fat lady approaching a third trimester during peak summer?

Virginia

Okay, so my kids are born in August and October so I feel you because I had two very hot pregnant summers to get through. When I had the first one I didn’t know if there would be subsequent children. I didn’t have a number of kids in mind. So similarly I was like I don’t want to spend a lot of money on a swimsuit that I might only wear that summer. I ended up finding a really good one at Old Navy. Disclaimer that I was still in straight sizes, I think a 12 or 14 shopping for pregnancy clothes that first time. But I still would check Old Navy because their plus size options for small fat are decent. And given their sales, you can probably get a top for under 20 bucks.

[Post recording note from Virginia: Looks like Old Navy Maternity suits only go up to XXL! So sorry!]

You might be able to wear a regular bikini bottom and just not pull it up over your belly and just get a maternity tankini top. The other option is to stick with bikinis full stop, where you don’t need the stomach coverage. That’s not everybody’s comfort of course.

You might have to get a bigger bra size because you’re pregnant now, but you could probably get like a normal bra top. You’ll get some use out of the top past the pregnancy but definitely look at Old Navy for cheap. They’ll do a Memorial Day sale and everything will be $9.

I would also crowdsource! Pregnant and formerly pregnant people love to pass on their maternity clothes because this is such an annoying time of life. This is something if you’re on any local moms groups, ask around. Does anyone have any good maternity swimsuits that they’re looking to pass on? I think you could get some good options that way.

Corinne

Yeah, I was also going to suggest maybe looking into YouSwim because they are specifically designed to fit a variety of sizes.

Virginia

I have a YouSwim bikini. When you first order it and open the envelope, you will be like, Why did I buy doll clothes? Because they are tiny. They’re this ribbed fabric. And then you put it on it stretches quite dramatically.

Corinne

And they only have two sizes, one is 0-14 and one is 14-24.

Virginia

They annoyingly are not making all of their suits in the bigger size. I’m very irritated about this because they also have this very cute longline bikini that I really want that they don’t make in the 14 to 24. 

Corinne

And the colors are very limited. I want to try them, but I just don’t like any of the colors they have in the bigger size. At least right now. 

Virginia

I will also say it is not a boob support swimsuit. My boobs look awesome in it, but they’re more visible. You’re not going to go jogging on the beach. I mean, you’re pregnant. You don’t need to be doing that. But maybe look at them for bottoms, I would say, because the stretch is pretty good. 

Okay, I’m going to read the next question. We got multiple versions of this question too because I think it’s getting at a core dilemma. And maybe we already hit on a little bit with the discussion of swim dresses and swim skirts, but this is a core dilemma as a fat person showing up in swimwear. So this person writes, 

I do not want to remove my pubic hair in order to enjoy swimming. Plus, I’m very sun conscious, so I like to be covered up. The result is I’m often in surf outfits that have shorts and sleeves. It’s great for what I’m trying to achieve, but I feel self conscious because I’m fat and worry people assume I’m dressed like this because I’m trying to cover up my body, like an adult version of wearing a big T shirt over a bathing suit.

I feel like I’m sending a message that I’m ashamed of my body and by association that other fat people should be, too. Even though in reality I’m just trying to care for my body by not waxing or getting sunburned. I don’t know that there’s a question here other than help. 

Yeah, this is really real.

Corinne

It’s a dilemma. I mean, my thoughts are: Take care of yourself. And don’t worry what other people are thinking.

Virginia

You don’t owe anyone a political statement about fat people in swimwear if you want to go swimming. It’s an interesting double standard, because you wouldn’t make the same assumption about a thin person wearing surf shorts or a swim skirt. 

Corinne

I definitely live somewhere where a lot of people wear stuff like this just because of the sun. You can’t be in the pool for very long without sun protection. 

Virginia

I think in general, the cultural awareness around sun protection is changing. It’s more normalized that you don’t want to be uncovered. But I know what this person is talking about because I have gone to a lot of public pools and beaches where I see moms slathering their children in sunscreen, putting their children in full body rashguards, putting their children in sun hats, like a child has to wear their hat into the pool to swim. And then the mom is in a bikini. Like maybe a big hat and maybe they have a cute cover up. But there’s still this thing of as a woman or a female presenting person at the beach, I have to look sexy and be uncovered. And I struggle with that. Both the pressure to do it and I have complicated feelings about it.

Corinne

It is a complicated question. I don’t know that there’s a good way to dress in a way that meets the needs of your body while telegraphing to other people that you’re not ashamed of your body.

Virginia

Yeah. I think just the fact that you’re showing up and I assume swimming and enjoying yourself at the pool, I think that is showing that you know you belong there. People questioning it, or misinterpreting what you’re doing, that’s really them revealing more about themselves than anything. But I understand this confusion of perception. I think it is why a lot of us feel like UGH about the swim skirts and the swim dresses. Because it feels like that’s all we were told to wear and because it feels like well, if I’m doing that I’m somehow signposting to the world, like, “fat mom at the beach in the swim dress.”

Corinne

I think it’s more important to be comfortable and not having to remove body hair or get a sunburn at the pool than it is to be trying to send a message to other fat folks that you’re not ashamed of your body or their body. That’s the the side I would land on with that.

Virginia

I agree. And by showing up in that type of swimwear, you are also subverting the norm that women should reveal their bodies at the beach. You are challenging the patriarchy nicely that way. That’s also valuable. 

Okay, the next question is

Recs for swimsuits size 5x and up?

Corinne, what have you got for us?

Corinne

There are a bunch of brands that go up to a 5x. Over a 5x, Superfit Hero, which you mentioned, they go up to a 7x. They have some very cute stuff and it all looks comfortable and supportive. They also have rash guard tops and stuff like that. Swim shorts. It’s practical.

Swimsuits For All has some styles up to a size 44. Ulla Popken has very few styles up to a size 38. Tamara Malas has up to a 34/36. Then we’re getting into the ones that go more like up to a size 30 or 5x, but Villa Fresca, which is Gabifresh’s new swim brand, Bloomchic goes up to a 30, Eloquii goes up to a 32, Universal Standard has up to a size 30. Beefcake Swimwear, which is one of the kind of nonbinary style goes up to a 5x and Nomads goes up to a 5x.

 Virginia

Are there any of those brands that you have tried or have specific style notes about? 

Corinne

I’ve tried Swimsuits For All, not super recently. I’ve tried Eloquii, also not super recently. Eloquii’s stuff was good, if it’s your style. Well made, holds up. And then yeah, Swimsuits For All just has tons of stuff, just tons. 

Virginia

That’s a little bit of a grab bag, right? Because it’s lots of different brands.

Corinne

I think they have different brands and I think they have their own brands as well. I think their own brand stuff is pretty basic, but I the fact that they have anything up to a size 44 is pretty significant I think.

Virginia

I am noticing and I’m slightly annoyed that on Swimsuits For All if I search by one pieces, it only goes up to 34. Yet if I search by swim dresses, it goes up to 42.

Corinne

Yes, I do think the larger size things are a little bit more, like, modesty-oriented.

Virginia

That is irritating, right? That other questioner is not wrong. That is irritating. You don’t have to wear a swim dress. I mean, some of them are cute, but why are there not more options?

I think, unfortunately, the other advice here is—and this is what I do anytime I order swimwear—is you have to order a whole bunch of stuff. You have to have an evening, maybe a glass of wine or an edible, whatever you might need, some chocolate. And you need to resign yourself to I’m going to try and a bunch of stuff. And 80 percent of it is going to be absolute trash. And I’m going to have to return it. I know when I order everything I’m going to UPS at some point. That’s an another annoying errand and that is the process for finding swimwear as a fat person.

Corinne

And you have to make sure you don’t accidentally remove the hygienic liner.

Virginia

The crotch sticker!

Corinne

Which always happens to me. It sticks to my underwear.

Virginia

Yeah, it’s just an annoying process and you’re going to have to go through it.

Corinne

All right, next we have a bunch of questions about sun protection.

Plus size rash guards? Where to get a good cover up?

Virginia

I am more useful on cover ups than rash guards. Do you have rash guard thoughts first?

Corinne

I just ordered a rashguard from Land’s End, so Land’s End definitely has them. Superfit Hero definitely has them. 

Virginia

I have had them from Athleta which is not fully size inclusive. I think they go up to a 3x but I don’t know how good of a 3x that is. I think mine is probably a 2x from them. And randomly J Crew factory outlet—I have one from there that is a 2x. And it was super cheap.

Because I’m that mom who’s slathering my children in sunscreen but neglecting my own protection, I often don’t feel like wearing rash guard. I don’t like the feel of them in the water, it’s kind of a sensory thing for me. I don’t like sitting in a wet rash guard, so I don’t know, it’s a tough sell for me. But I will do a hat and I will do a cover up and I will keep my cover up on a lot of the time when I’m at the beach or the pool because I am not trying to tan. 

My favorite things for cover ups are, especially if you’re traveling and going to be swimming, is to pack some dresses that you would wear out, and could also wear as a cover up. One of my favorites is actually like this old silk Anthropologie dress that’s a mumu style but it’s knee length and has a big V neck. It’s really pretty and I always get compliments on it because it’s sort of dressy for a pool. But it works really well. And then if I wanted to wear it to dinner later, I could. 

I do a lot of big shirt dresses. I think there are just more options sometimes. I think a lot of the cover ups marketed as cover ups, it’s kind of like they created a need so they could sell a product a little bit? I also really love my chambray button down shirt from Universal Standard. Just like wearing that open over a swimsuit or any big button down shirt, I think, is a good cover up. I think it like looks pretty stylish in a way that some of the sold as a cover up options don’t. 

Corinne

Yeah, I usually go for either like a robe-ish thing or a dress that opens in the front, like buttons down. I have like a I guess it’s a dress thing from Oddbird that I like as a cover up. And then also I really like Peridot Robes. 

Virginia

Ooh, yeah. Your Peridot robe is good.

Corinne

This is the question I didn’t know that I had:

But how are we applying sunscreen in 2024 to the hard to reach body parts? 

Virginia

Man, this is a great question. 

Corinne

I need someone to tell me because I don’t know. I feel like I usually get the spray stuff and try to reach as far as you can to spray it on my back and hope I’m not missing a spot. Or ask a friend to do it.

Virginia

This was one of the good uses of a husband. Having a partner who will spray your back for you. And yeah, obviously you could ask a friend. You don’t need to get married.

Corinne

It is surprisingly intimate, though. To be like, can you lather my body?

Virginia

I agree. And I wouldn’t ask my kids because I don’t trust their application skills to be reliable. I mean, this is where a rash guard is useful. Sometimes what I will do is not worry about the sunscreen on my back while I’m just sitting on the lounge chair and maybe leave my cover up on but then if I’m going to go out in the water for a while, then I will make myself wear a rash guard so I don’t have to worry about my back so much. 

Corinne

But yeah, I would love to know if there is like some tool. 

Virginia

Yeah, there should be. 

Corinne

Like a back scratcher for sunscreen?

Virginia

Both my kids have different sensory aversions to sunscreen. One of my kids will only do the stick or the roll on sunscreens. And I have to say, it feels like you could have like a grabber that you could use for that. We need the technology. So people drop that in the comments if you have other tips for getting your sunscreen on your own back and other hard to reach places.

Corinne

What about size fat towels?

Virginia

Well certainly Towel the brand that we had a podcast episode about, with Mary Carney.

I haven’t used them for the pool but I love them so much. They’re in my shower. But I do have her towel and they are so fluffy and delicious and giant and she designs them to fit up to a 7x so super size inclusive.

Corinne

There are a few plus-sized towel brands, but I feel like none of them are making specifically beach or pool towel. 

Virginia

Beach towels in general often run larger so they might be thinking there’s less of a need? Because the towels we use at our pool are some Target beach towels from many summers ago (similar) and they are—I had one in my bathroom and compared—much bigger than my regular bath towels. So for a long time, beach towel was the tip you got for how to get regular towels to work. So there are some options but I agree I would love to see one of these fat towel brands doing like fun, beachy patterns.

Corinne

I also like Oddbird for towels because they do those like super thin Turkish towel kind of thing. I like because lugging around a beach towel is such a a pain sometimes.

Virginia

Yeah, the Towel brand would not work to go to the pool because they’re heavy. It’s very thick. 

Corinne

Yeah. And I find that the the Oddbird ones fit me. They usually list the measurements.

Virginia

That’s really good. Oh, and they’re cute, too. I might want some of these. 

Corinne

But it’s more of a keep cool towel than a keep a warm towel, if you’re in a cold climate.

Virginia

Okay, we got a recommendation for Havaianas flip flops. And Corinne wanted to cut it from this episode because I have learned that Corinne is militantly anti flip flop, and I’m sorry to have to inform you all of that. I think this is possibly Corinne’s version of Birkenstocks and skinny jeans. 

I’m gonna read this real quick and then Corinne can tear it apart. Okay, this person said:

I’d like to shout out havaianas flip flops. I recently realized I’ve been wearing the same pair for 11 years and they haven’t aged much at all. I just looked at the price and I’m shocked they’re only $20 to $30. I guess that’s what was pretty expensive in my mind when I bought them as a literal child, 27 years old.

Wow. So what’s the deal?

Corinne

I mean, I just don’t like them? I don’t like how they look and I don’t like the sound that they make. 

Virginia

The slapping?

Corinne

I was thinking the origin of this must be literally high school or something. But then I was recalling that I’m pretty sure I wore flip flops to my senior prom. 

Virginia

So you’ve had a reversal on this. You used to be pro flip flops. You’ve flip flopped!  

Corinne

I feel like to me now they signify something that I don’t like. You wear flip flops, right?

Virginia

I do. Not all the time, but definitely for travel. If I’m going to be swimming for traveling, I always throw flip flops in because they take up no space in your suitcase versusanother pair of Birkenstocks or something that are going to be bulkier. Again, the bulky sandal.

What I don’t love about them actually, this is like very in the weeds, but I have noticed in recent years with the flapping and the way it hits your foot, if I wear them all day, I will end up with heel cracks from it. My feet can’t take it anymore. So, that is legit not for everybody. And for sure they have no arch support. You couldn’t walk miles in them. So to me, they’re specifically for like, “I’m going from the parking lot to the pool.” They can’t be beat for that.

Corinne

I don’t like the smacking and for that walk, I’m using the plastic Birkenstocks.

Virginia

I am really craving a pair of the thong-style plastic Birkenstocks. I have the regular ones and I love them, but I garden in them so they’re very muddy a lot of time. I feel like they wouldn’t work for going out and about. 

Corinne

I kind of want to get a pair of the plastic Birkenstock clogs because I feel like those would be good, because then you wouldn’t get like sand in your or dirt in your shoes.

Virginia

But don’t you think it would just come in the sides? I don’t trust that.

Well, apparently this is a very controversial shoe, the flip flop. So listeners, tell us your opinions on them, pro or con. I’m very curious to find out because I thought they were just sort of a given of swimwear life.

Our last question, I think, is a really, really good one to end on. 

Would love thoughts on navigating public pools. There are lots of thin moms at mine and I’m ready to not compare myself to them at all this go round.

Corinne

Yeah, this was such an interesting one for me, because I am a frequent public pool goer. One of the things I like about a public pool is that there’s just a lot of people there with different bodies. 

Virginia

Yeah. I agree. I think I’m often in my head before I go about this issue and how I’ll feel about it. Then when I get there, I’m like, oh right. Real life is not an Instagram reel. Models are not hanging out at my pool.

Corinne

I always just end up feeling good because I’m like, “Oh, there’s a fat teenager wearing a bikini and men with tons of body hair.” People are there to get cool, you know? Not to display themselves. 

Virginia

Totally. And maybe that’s one tip is like, look beyond the thin moms. I get, depending on what your community is, there may be a lot of thin moms at your pool. There certainly would be at any local pool I’d go to around here. But look for the fat teenager, look for the dads, look for the different vibes. I think fat bodies are so often rendered invisible, that it’s possible you’re focusing on the thin people, but there’s a lot more going on in your pool environment and looking and realizing you’re not as alone as you think might be really helpful. 

Corinne

Also, can you focus on why you’re at the pool? What is it about being at the pool that you like? Like you get to cool off or you get to enjoy the sunshine or whatever, rather than how do I look compared to the other people at this pool?

Virginia

The anti-fatness is very real. You’re feeling uncomfortable because, yes, your body gets scrutinized in a way that thin bodies don’t get scrutinized and all of that is true. And whenever I went to a pool as a thin person, I was just as in my head, probably more so, about what my body looked like and how it would be perceived. 

All those thin moms you’re seeing are also standing in their house debating what to do with their pubic hair, debating what kind of cover up to wear, debating how much coverage or not coverage they should have with their swimsuit. Feeling anxious about being nearly naked in public is understandable and I think universal for the most part. So just let yourself go and enjoy. 

This is something I like that Jennifer Weiner has talked about a lot over the years. She always posts a swimsuit picture in the summer because she talks about being a younger fat mom and feeling like she couldn’t be in the pictures. She didn’t want to be in the pool or whatever. So she’s always like, get in the pool with your kids. Get in the pictures. Put yourself out there because you deserve to be there. And your kids want you to be there with them. And they want those memories with you. So don’t deprive yourself. 

Corinne

And it’s fun. You’re there to have fun. 

Virginia

And if its not fun for you, that’s fine, too. I’m not saying every single person has to love public pools or swimming or any of this. But if this is something that you enjoy doing with your kids or your friends or just by yourself, you deserve to be there.

I’m excited to hear what other folks have to say about these many contentious issues. We’ve covered a lot. Swim dresses, pubic hair, flip flops. A lot of hot button topics in this episode is all I’m going to say.

Butter

Virginia

I want to talk about pool snacks because it’s on theme and also because yesterday was our first day warm enough to have a bunch of kids in the pool. We weren’t expecting the weather to be that good, but I ended up with four kids in my pool which was so fun. 

And then they got hungry. And I think in past years, I would always be like, okay, come out of the pool and we’ll have snacks on the porch or come inside or whatever. But they clearly wanted to keep swimming, they were having a great time. And so I was like, I’m going to bring them snacks to eat IN the pool. 

The most popular snack hands down was lemon ice. The just absolute joy on these kids’ faces of like floating in the pool, eating a lemon ice on a hot day. I felt really proud of myself that I happened to have them on hand and remembered that. I also brought out popcorn which was very popular, although a little bit messier for sure. One of my children could not remember not to put their hand in the popcorn bowl. So my next goal is to get some like plastic individual snack cups for this kind of thing. 

Corinne

That’s smart. 

Virginia

Versus bringing out the one giant bowl of popcorn. But then there was like, ew, you made it wet. But yeah, good pool snacks and potato chips, too. There’s something about salty when you’re swimming a lot—it’s probably your electrolytes theory. 

Corinne

I wasn’t going to say anything.

Virginia

I put it together. They needed to replenish their electrolytes. Cape Cod potato chips are the best summer potato chip in my opinion. So when you’re doing your fat swim this summer, don’t sleep on snacks. Think about what your good snack plan is going to be. Super cool and icy or salty and crunchy are your best options. Not chocolate. It’s going to melt and be a mess.

Corinne

Yes, those are good tips. I would often go to the pool after work, from like five to six or something and I would meet friends there and we would be hanging out in the pool and all we could talk about was food. I think something about being in the water just makes you really hungry. But then we started bringing sandwiches and it was incredible.

Virginia

Sandwiches at the pool sounds great. 

Corinne

I’m also very excited about my Butter because I feel like it’s a really good Burnt Toast butter and I’m curious if you have listened to it. I recently rediscovered the Julia Louis Dreyfus podcast Wiser Than Me. Have you listened to that?

Virginia

Oh, I have not. I heard her interviewed about it, but then I never listened to actual podcast. 

Corinne

The second season just came out and basically the premise is she interviews older women. There are just a lot of interesting guests and I specifically want to recommend the episode with Isabel Allende. They get into some really interesting topics about whether Isabel Allende considers herself sexy.

I think she’s also kind of a good interviewer maybe partially because she’s also not a good interviewer? You can tell a lot of times the questions are coming from a personal place. But it’s fun to listen to and I feel like it’s just inspiring and makes me feel better about aging.

Virginia

Oh, I’m excited. I’m definitely listening to that.

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CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow me on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, and Big Undies—subscribe for 20% off! 

The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.

Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.

Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.

Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!