Memetic Weaponization of Teen Girl Rage: The Tragic Case of Natalie Rupnow

In this episode, we delve into the case of Natalie Rapanau, a 15-year-old involved in a tragic school shooting. Through the lens of her recently discovered manifesto, we discuss the misconceptions surrounding her identity and ideologies. We explore her background, motivations, and the broader societal implications of her actions. Along the way, we touch on topics like youth nihilism, the impact of familial structures, and the influence of internet culture. Join us as we untangle the details and reflect on what this means for future generations.

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone! Today, we are going to be doing a deep dive on what some FemCell Shooter, because of a Incorrect and forged manifesto that was shared around shortly afterwards. What? Where she, like, she subscribed to FemCell Ideology but if you dig deeper, it was pretty obvious that it was forged, like, if you actually go into it, and the real manifesto, I was able to find it after a lot of research.

Oh, so there is a

Simone Collins: manifesto, it's just that the wrong manifesto was shared at first.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, because she idiotically forgot to make her document public before going on the mass shooting. Oh.

Simone Collins: Oh. That's like when you accidentally forward an email to the wrong person, you know?

Malcolm Collins: So her boyfriend had to make it public, which I think really blows the idea of her being a fem cell out of the water I through, because we'll go through a, a few of the longer snippets from her manifesto.

Okay. It'll be pretty clear that she is. Probably [00:01:00] closest to a four channer in ideology, like a stereotypical four channer very black billed. And I would say that this shooting was downstream of an extreme black pilling of the youth, who just don't believe there's hope in anything. Or that the older generation understands them or has any sort of plans for them or any good advice for them.

And yeah, I agree with that across the board in terms of I, I think that we are at risk of many more such shootings like this. If we allow this rampant nihilism to continue to spread, and it is being pushed by the newest update of the urban monoculture, not the update from a couple of generations ago, not the one that has affected most adults but the new one sort of follows the, the nothing strategy from never ending story.

People have begun to lose their hopes, and forget their dreams. So the nothing grows stronger. It's the emptiness that's left. It is like a [00:02:00] despair, destroying this world. I have been trying to help it. Because people who have no hopes are easy to control.

Simone Collins: I can't remember that. All I remember from never ending story is, is coming away with this oppressive feeling of depression and. Nihilism. What, what is, what, what is that in what do you just

Malcolm Collins: is, is it those without hope are easy to control?

Simone Collins: Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, and that's checked out. That seems to be what's going on.

Okay.

Malcolm Collins: When you, when you get rid of human creativity and human ingenuity and hope for a better future, even though I've like, literally never, I actually sat down with Simone and it's like, you know, we may. Live to a post work era. Like when we are old, it might be that only work is happening voluntarily, which is pretty wild to think about.

Simone Collins: There

Malcolm Collins: is a lot of reason to be optimistic about the [00:03:00] future. But I wouldn't have been optimistic about her place in it because she seemed exceedingly stupid. And we'll go into that as well.

Simone Collins: Wow. Okay. Fightin words.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Not really. When you, when you read it, you're like, okay, I know nothing about this.

So yeah, please bring me up to

Simone Collins: speed.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, great. And the thing that will surprise people just first, I'll put some pictures on screen here of her is she is white. And for a 15 year old girl, it looks like she would have grown up to be a fairly attractive woman.

Simone Collins: She's going through her awkward teenage phase at this point.

Malcolm Collins: No, I'm not. I'd say probably top 10 percent attractiveness in terms of women. Okay.

Simone Collins: So yeah, she wasn't deformed. She wasn't, and she had a boyfriend and like, so she wasn't She was

Malcolm Collins: thin she was, had a decent looking face. And again, This is all in the context of I am trying to judge a 15 year old's future attractiveness not me talking about how attractive she was.

I think you're also

Simone Collins: trying to point out, like, is this because she was incredibly [00:04:00] ugly in some way that would lead her to be bullied and extra blackpilled by the world because she wasn't attractive? But that clearly wasn't the issue. Yeah, that clearly was a technical issue with her appearance in a way that could have radicalized her.

It had to have been something else is what you're saying.

Malcolm Collins: She comes off and you'll see this as I go through this. If you're familiar with the story of creepy Chan, pretty similar to creepy Chan. Oh, okay. Or, or early Bella Delphine, if you're familiar with her story um, where she was basically raised in environments like 4chan,

Simone Collins: um,

Malcolm Collins: And , tried to customize her appearance and humor and attitude to be like that, that people on those sites respect.

Okay, so the attack took place during a, oh sorry, on December 16th, 2024, a tragic shooting occurred at the Abundant Life Christian School in Madison, Wisconsin. The shooter has been identified as Natalie Rapunel, a 15 year old female student who also went by the name Samantha, [00:05:00] or Sam, you see in some of the correspondence.

Here is what we know about the incident and the shooter. The attack took place during a study hall session, resulting in the deaths of two people, a teacher and another teenage student. Six others were injured, with two in critical condition. Rapanau died from what the authorities believe to be a self inflicted gunshot wound. The gun used was a 9mm handgun. Her parents, Melissa and Jeff Rapanau, had been divorced and remarried multiple times. She mentions this in her manifesto. . They had a joint custody arrangements that sometime required Natalie to move between homes every few days uh, enrolled Natalie in therapy to help her cope with the custody arrangements.

And Natalie had joined a shooting range with her father, in the months before the incident and a photo from August showed her at the firing range wearing protective gear and handling a firearm. Her father was quite proud of this and they seem to, or he believed that she enjoyed her time there.

She also participated in karate [00:06:00] competitions. Now, she was intensely obsessed with school shooters, and in her manifesto, talks about a number she considers herself a fangirl of, so we'll get to that. Oh, wow, okay. Normally,

Simone Collins: martial arts, and Participating in safe firearm use at a gun range is correlated with more responsible gun use behavior.

So this was surprising.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, no, she, she, it's clear that she went into all of this with the intention of doing a school shooting.

Simone Collins: Oh, like she wasn't raised with it. It kind of was something she she talked her dad into. Okay. So it's not like her dad raised her going to gun ranges. Like this is gun safety.

We're a gun family. It was more like, hey dad, I really want to go to the gun range together. It'll help us bond. Wouldn't you like me to like you more than my mom, et cetera. Something like that.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, and we'll see later in this, her argument for why she did this could basically be boiled down to, I [00:07:00] decided that my life had no hope and the future has no hope, so I decided to commit suicide, but wouldn't that be a lame way to die?

Why don't I remove some other weak genes from the gene pool in the process? And remove some of the filth that is humanity from the planet of the Earth.

Simone Collins: Oh, come on!

Malcolm Collins: All right. So she's, she's sort of was an antinatalist. You could almost argue. But like an incel Blackville version of an antinatalist.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that antinatalist, the antinatalist view is let's just all end the line. You know, it ends with us,

Malcolm Collins: but keep in mind, she also believed quote unquote, she, she had written this, that she was the mistake. They never wanted of her parents. And speaking of both school and home. They look at me, but don't see me.

I am invisible until I do something they can't ignore. And she actually, I'll just go straight for the document. I think that's a better way to do it.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: But before I go into the document, I also wanted to talk a bit about, [00:08:00] how this document was found. And you know, and I'll just put the tweets on screen here. But yeah, there's a series of tweets about the fake fem cell version of the manifesto that was going around. And that is what actually motivated the release of the real document. The boyfriend was not going to release it at, at start, but people were basically like, look, people are using this to.

Spread like an ideology that wasn't hers using her death, like either release the real document or this fake documents going to gain more traction. I will note some interesting things about going through the entire manifesto because it was like, yeah, Four or five pages. Is that it doesn't really talk about sexual frustration.

It doesn't really talk about her, anything about being a woman or anything like that as being a bad thing. So it doesn't appear to be particularly gender based. Although she does think that everyone has a disgusting body. She mentioned that at one point. But that is not like a, Oh, I'm angry at men sort [00:09:00] of saying she doesn't mention politics.

At all,

In the, in the document. So this wasn't anything that was particularly politically motivated. She doesn't mention anything that seems stereotypically woke. She seems to have been fairly allergic to that. And a lot of it is basically self pitying, I guess I'd say. She's a teenage girl.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. All right. So I'll start quoting here. Maybe you'll see me as a weirdo, a freak, just as some of you do now, but I'm not. I'm not like the others. I would never want to be like them.

Speaker 2: We'll always be freaks and we'll never be like other people!

Speaker 3: You're boring. And you're totally ordinary. And you know it.

Malcolm Collins: With how they think and what they do on a simple day, I hate how the population thinks, grows, and talks about how they make romance fake.

If only some days we could do a public execution, that would be gladly needed. I wouldn't mind throwing some stones at idiots, or even watching from the far back when they get [00:10:00] hanged. And then so you, you get a lot of stuff like this, like very violent sort of 4chan y, but also very self pitying and very desiring to be unique.

I am not like other people is a constant theme of this, which we've seen there's like teenage girls go through. This is a classic

Simone Collins: teenage girl. Yeah. Tendency. They could have maybe

Malcolm Collins: been cured had she seen American Beauty.

Speaker 4: There's nothing worse in life than being ordinary.

Simone Collins: I know because it would have made her feel so embarrassed about having

Malcolm Collins: these ideas.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Or like the virgin suicides. Yeah. She'd just be like, Oh, this is too basic. I can't do that. It was painful hearing that because it's sound parts of it sounded like my teenage diaries, my angsty days. And we have those, we should like

Malcolm Collins: read them at some point on the show, maybe not, but they are very fun to read

Simone Collins: when I was, especially when I was a teen, they were incredibly angsty.

And I reading [00:11:00] this takes me back. I mean, part of me is thinking it's a wonder more girls don't do school shootings. You know, because in the end, like, They're scary. You know, people are afraid of teen boys in school shooting. It's the girls who are scary. That's why we originally decided to have boys first, because I was terrified of having two teen girls leading the tone in our family.

I will note

Malcolm Collins: here, teen girls almost never commit mass shootings. This is very rare. Yeah, this is extremely rare.

There have been more mass shootings by trans women in the last four years, I think, than there have been by women in the last 20 years.

She is

Simone Collins: bringing DEI to school shootings. shootings.

Malcolm Collins: The glass ceiling.

Simone Collins: Um, As thinking also about the S You know, this was an inc of events that was driven yeah,

Malcolm Collins: very, very, ver getting a little bit of t

Simone Collins: I would like to throw a r like to watch as they, [00:12:00] yo She could be in Salem.

Malcolm Collins: Right, so if you're not an American and you don't know what she's referring to, describe the Salem Witch Trials quickly.

Simone Collins: So the Salem Witch Trials took place in the town of Salem, Massachusetts when a bunch of pilgrims sort of had a mass hysteria event, led by a small girl. Cabal group clique of female teenage girls who started accusing various members of the town of witchcraft.

There was a slave involved who kind of got coerced into feeding into the narrative as well. I think she might've been the first adult to kind of feed into this witchcraft narrative and accusing people of practicing witchcraft. But in the end, A sizable number of people were killed one very, you know, innocent man was crushed to death in a pretty ballsy way.

He basically just, whenever they asked him to confess his sins, he would just say more weight. And [00:13:00] it was, it was one of these instances of teenage females being incredibly violent and evil and Machiavellian and uncaring and psychopathic. And so this. It doesn't seem too far from that and I think having been a teenage female, I get that there's, they're scary.

They're scarier than teenage boys by a long

Malcolm Collins: shot. When they, when they decide to go scary. By the way, a movie I'd note if you want to watch a movie about teen girls being crazy that I think it's really good and hugely underrated ginger snaps to

Simone Collins: not one

Malcolm Collins: ginger snaps to amazing movie, hugely like under underplayed as a cult classic.

Simone Collins: See, that's crazy in a fun way. And I think what have been, what would have been more helpful.

In terms of making the concept of being a school shooter and suicidal school, school shooter to cringe for this young lady would have been something like the version suicides or American beauty, like [00:14:00] you pointed out. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: no, I agree. And there hasn't been a movie like that in a really long time.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it's been too long.

Malcolm Collins: Too long since we have made it cringe to be a young teenage girl would desiring to be, it's a

Simone Collins: public service, clearly, you know, we got to get back to this, make it to, you know. Too basic.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Okay, so here is a quote from it that I think will throw off the idea that this might have been an overly left leaning person.

So, here, obviously, I'm not going to say the N word, but she uses the N word. Oh,

Simone Collins: boy.

Malcolm Collins: And then she says, but it's only in one section, like one paragraph she mentions this, and it's a complete non sequitur of where it is in the document. Is she just doing

Simone Collins: it to be edgy? Is she just trying to look pretty?

Make it clear that she's not like edgy. I suppose

Malcolm Collins: some of the other shooters she admired did it. And then she decided she was really trying to like simp for male mass school shooters. This is, this is clearly part of this for her. I

Simone Collins: think fangirling is another bad symptom or just uncomfortable symptom of being a teenage female.

You know, this is just one of those perfect storms of. Every way in which teenage female, [00:15:00] female hood was manifested in her, was manifested in exactly the wrong flavor.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. So she says in words though, worse, once you sleep with them, you are one. I don't care who you think you are or what you think you've done good for this world of yours.

It will never matter because you will always have no thought and no brain to continue is. I hate looking at some of the people in society, When seeing what they are and what they do with their lives, like how does one do that? But I know how out of scum and just pure retardedness. So you can see it's very like meandering and doesn't really have a point.

It's almost like somebody trained an AI on 4chan.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Yeah

Malcolm Collins: To go further here. i'm glad to be different and not the same as other people I know how to be formal. I know how to use my words Even if I get mad at you there has always been a good reason whether or not I despise you or [00:16:00] just because I can There's always been a good reason either. I despise you or just because I can I don't know That's a good reason just because I can again, this is

Simone Collins: so a teenage girl You Some of you

Malcolm Collins: guys are very teenage girls.

Teenage girl distilled. Some of you guys really do deserve the execution punishment. Rather painful or not, you deserve to be dead. But yet, doesn't the whole world deserve that? The main target has been anyone with some sort of feeling or being or knowing any action to turn you wrong and left rather than the right and the better.

So That might be saying that she's right wing there. I can't really make it out. This is what she had to say after praising a number of other mass shooters about the Columbine mass shooters. She goes, I've looked into him since like 2021 and 2022 and she has a picture of him. And I've just realized how much potential bombs have, but It's not just that, though.

It's his strategy, his own method, and what led him to do it, and the fact that he [00:17:00] stuck to that. Some of his fangirls are like, really strange in my opinion, but like, aren't all fangirls?

So she's like, questioning being in this fangirl community for school shooters. And then she goes on to say, There are also others I admire or so I'd like to say look up to and or find interesting. Otherwise, most are just interesting to me. Unlike those retarded. F. A. G. f***s who simp over them, like, come on, just stop.

So you can see very It just

Simone Collins: sounds like a teenage girl's diary, and I Gosh. Mm. Yeah, go on.

Malcolm Collins: No, but we live in a society, I, we had a, a teen girl who we were helping at one point and she would say stuff that sounded sort of like this sometimes, not like this, but like very like, I'm different, no one's like me and I'm like, everybody thinks that.

The number one thing you need to remember when you're a teenager is be nice to your parents. [00:18:00] That's what I'd say is the number one thing I'd impart to teenagers because that's going to be the strongest instinct that you need to overcome to learn to intergenerationally strive. It's also just

Simone Collins: so interesting.

It's hard for me to model. Like I have never seen this trope come through in a teenage girl or boy who is from a large family. They just, that having a lot of siblings and having a life in which by design you were presented with responsibilities and limitations and hardship, but in a meaningful way. And by meaningful, I mean, It's because there's something else that matters more instead of just, oh, this random bad thing happened.

You know, it's

Malcolm Collins: funny that you mentioned that. Not a single school shooter I'm aware of has been from a large family.

Simone Collins: Yeah, has had more than one sibling, per my understanding. Maybe. That's

Malcolm Collins: wild, actually.

Simone Collins: Well, we have to look up that claim, of course, and actually check,

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So I went through a lot of AI is trying to find it any, could find a [00:19:00] single school shooter from an intact family with more than one sibling. I'm even talking just two siblings. Could not find a single one. , now some had, , parents who had remarried or married other people and had a number of half siblings, but here I'm looking for large intact families. It seems to have a hundred percent protection rate. Against somebody going crazy and becoming a school shooter, which is just wild. And, you know, the next time somebody is like, Hey, we need to stop these school shootings.

We should ban guns. You can be like, or start having lots of kids again. That would also stop it.

Simone Collins: but Yeah, I just, even, even when it comes to general angstiness, sullenness, no, of course, even in Hannah's children, the amazing book on, on like very big prenatalist families.

There were some families that reported having depressed teens, teens who were struggling a little [00:20:00] bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But not in an angsty, weird way like this. I

Malcolm Collins: just, you pointed out to me, I thought it was really interesting is there was a case called the Wolf Children of five kids that were raised in a cramped Manhattan apartment, like a small.

Studio apartment in Manhattan, which they only left once per year, if that. Some years they didn't leave at all.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And there was like seven or eight of them living together. It might have been as high as twelve. But they It was

Simone Collins: smaller than Yeah, it was maybe in the, like, seven range.

Malcolm Collins: They ended up becoming, like, they did a video documentary on them, and if you watch the documentary cognitively and emotionally, they are much more mature than most random teenagers you would meet.

Yes, which is crazy!

Simone Collins: Yes! You would expect them to be completely out of whack and, and, and terribly regulated and everything, but, but in the end, Living with those limitations, living in such close quarters with [00:21:00] other people, having to make that work forced them to be reasonable and patient. And so I

Malcolm Collins: don't, I don't think that that's my takeaway from it.

My takeaway from it is that the cognitive stabilization and benefits of having lots of siblings is so astronomically high. It can outweigh being locked in a room your entire life. Basically you can be raised. Feral child basically. And if you have lots of siblings, you will be better off than your, you know, single kid who's going to tennis camp and going to the shooting range with her dad and who the parents spend tons of time on.

That is how much it matters in terms of cognitive stability to have a huge number of siblings. Well,

Simone Collins: I think siblings are very grounding because they constantly remind you that the world isn't about you. That everything's not just about you and your needs that you are not entitled to anything. You know, and that you can gain a lot of [00:22:00] benefit from caring for other people and enjoy, feel, feel genuine reward and pleasure by helping someone else before you help yourself.

There's just so many good things that come from it and I, as someone who had bad dreams as an only child, in which my parents told me I was going to have a little sibling, you know, who just thought it was the worst thing ever to have siblings. It's so weird for me to now acknowledge this. I feel a little uncomfortable saying it.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. All right. So we keep going here.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Nobody knows I'm doing this. I've got the weapons by lies and manipulation and my father's stupidity. I planned on shooting myself a while ago, but thought maybe it's better for evolution, rather than just one stupid, boring suicide, which hopefully I'll reach that point.

I planned this myself and nobody else. I act alone. There would have been no way to change what happened. You can't and never will know. You never [00:23:00] cared too much. To know anything about me. I'm glad you don't know. So, clearly here this is like, I'm better than my caretaker. And teens go through this phase.

Do they think their parents are idiots?

Simone Collins: These are all very natural feelings. And again, I think the problem is that she, it's also, it's a natural important thing as well. I think as a teenager and as someone becoming an adult in the process of becoming an adult to realize that, yeah, you don't matter. No one cares what you think.

No one cares how you feel. You really don't matter. I think an issue that I, I, I. I see with modern parenting is that you're being gas lit as a teen and told that your feelings do matter and people do care what you think. Absolutely. Yes. And her parents are like, oh, no, you're so special. We care what you think.

You mean so much to us. But she knows it's not true. And now she's dealing with it in this really obviously [00:24:00] toxic and tragic way.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. And I know here, this is the interesting thing. When you look at like why she's mad at her parents and stuff like that. Everyone's like, Oh, you guys are so horrible to your kids.

Like you bought them, you, you know, et cetera. Like, how could you do that? I haven't seen anything like that. Kids don't whine about stuff like that in their Letters like this or manifestos like this. It's like my parents got divorced and remarried multiple times. My parents didn't take the time to understand me.

My parents were stupid and weak. That's the general complaints you see about parents. In fact I, I see the, I was disgusted at how weak my parents are. Specifically my father was. To be the most common complaint in the in cell world.

Simone Collins: Really? Well, I think most people, if they're not, I guess, okay. Yes.

Being a teen, you, you hit this point where you discover that your mother and dad are not God, that they're not flawless. They do not know everything. [00:25:00] Cause I think there's this period between we'll say, I don't know, we haven't hit it with our, with our kids yet. Maybe, maybe from six to 10, where kids seem to think very highly of their parents.

And then it hits them. Oh my gosh, these people are human. And it's this huge upset and that's normal. That's very normal.

Malcolm Collins: It is normal. But what I, what I was noting here is that if you are afraid of failing your kids somewhere on the spectrum, if you read a lot of the writing that young people are putting out there, which I have, cause you know, I'd spent time on like, before Chan and Chris cafe and all this stuff.

The complaint that young people have about their parents, which I'm trying to hit home, is not the complaint that previous generations had. Oh, that they were too

Simone Collins: strict with me. They were too

Malcolm Collins: not, they were too strict with me. It's not that they were never around. It's either and I've seen this, this, this mirrored complaint a lot.

And she seems to argue this complaint as well. It's that my [00:26:00] mom's settled for a weak man. Like she should have been more what's the word here? Yeah, she should have been more hypergamous. Basically, this is a complaint. People have, why isn't my mom? What? They blame the weakness of their father for their own weakness.

They're like, I am either weak, or ugly, or not motivated, or not creative, because I got bad genes from my dad.

Simone Collins: That is weird. That's a meme? Like, that's a thing? It's like a

Malcolm Collins: hardcore, yes, a hardcore meme, especially in intel circles. Oh and it makes sense because when you break out of the urban monoculture, the first thing that people realize and that floods are made, if you have any like degree of breaking out and young people are going to break out always.

So what the urban monoculture has been pushing with them is nihilism, but then, oh, human genes exist. And I am a large part of reflection of my genes. So if I'm a young kid and I hate myself, it must be because I have bad genes. [00:27:00] And then there's this sort of side assumption, which is and I don't know why the moms always get a pass but they generally seem to get a pass in these, like their mom.

I think it's because I thought teen girls really hate

Simone Collins: their

Malcolm Collins: moms. She, I mean, it's not that she liked her mom, but I think it's that she learned from incel forums how to speak about her dad and the way to speak about her dad that earned her

Simone Collins: respect. They just have more to say about men. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I think it's more disgusting to be weak as a male.

If a female is weak in our society, we don't treat that as like this huge failure, whereas if a male doesn't stand his ground or show discipline and order for his kids or show a vision and a desire to achieve that for his own life, it's very easy for kids to grow up denigrating him. And you'll see this a lot.

So I just think that people are hugely optimizing for things. Kids don't care about. Kids [00:28:00] don't care how frequently you're around. That was like two generations ago. Kids don't care that you're too strict or you're shoving your value system on them. What kids do care about in this generation is you being pathetic.

So be careful about that. Okay, so next.

I've always been a quiet kid, I say, or at least that's what everyone else around me has said and never really had the brains for most things because I wasn't smart enough for people around me, even though I'm good at science and some stuff. Nobody really looked at me in a good way in elementary or middle school, nor even high school right now.

Doesn't matter much because I like being alone. Very sour grapeseed, right? Like I want attention, but I also don't want to deal with people. Sometimes I just hate being picked on, but yet I mourn for friends, but sooner than later, they'll leave. My therapist sucks. He's just some weak, fat guy who doesn't deserve everything he has now.

Nobody deserves anything good.

So, a lot of this is based Teen girls are so scary. I don't know what to say. [00:29:00] Like, very teen girl. Like, that's why I believe this. Like, I read this and I was like, this is so No, this is, this

Simone Collins: checks out. I, I have faith in you. I don't know what the other Fem Cell Manifesto, the fake one, read like, but this is not questionable.

Yeah. I mean, if it didn't seem like something written by a teen girl, I would have just assumed that it was a teen girl using AI, but I don't think anyone has. So little dignity that they would use AI to write there.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, no, it has so many mistakes in it. I mean, the grammar, the grammatical mistakes I'm making here are not me misreading it.

Like, it's really poorly structured. Like, it's clear that this was not a fully educated human being. And a lot of people said, actually, this is pretty normal grasp of English of 15 year olds these days. Just because the education system is so bad. Yeah. And the other reason I believe this one is because it doesn't seem to have an agenda.

It's not painting her as a specific type of person, and there's an awful lot of complaint about why she hates her parents for silly reasons.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it's just, it's just [00:30:00] female again, like I,

Malcolm Collins: what I think is interesting is the repeated, like, not just her dad, but like other male authority figures in her life, she's disgusted by their weakness.

Simone Collins: She's disgusted

Malcolm Collins: by the weakness of society, which she sees as filthy.

Simone Collins: I think that's a product for sure of what she's been exposed to, that we have this equation Female angst, which is the volume is turned way, way up by being an only child or an almost only child hands on parents and a stifling smothering society.

And then she's exposed to this series of memes that's very tough on men and rather than turn her hate inward, like a lot of teenage girls do, and just do the normal thing, start cutting, develop an eating disorder, go trans. She decides to then become a school shooter. So she is quite indeed not like other [00:31:00] girls in that way.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, think about the way that she's approaching this, which I find really fascinating is that if you look at the film sells. They look at men and are like, there is a patriarchal structure that is stomping on us. There is like it's this cabal of men. They see men as like this unifying force that like they work together

Simone Collins: They check each other

Malcolm Collins: Yeah represents a new wave of disgust and anger with men which is to say why are men Why, why as growing up are the men I see so disgustingly self like, like desiring affirmation, desiring of, of, of weak and pathetic things.

Where are the strong men, the men that I want around me, the men that I want in society, which is such a different complaint than you would get from a typical fem cell, right? You know, it's almost like, a true femcel and that she's like outright admitting it. Like what I [00:32:00] mean by this is it's not that I can't get anyone to sleep with me.

It's that no men are worthy of existing in this society.

Although

again, she did have a boyfriend. So to continue my so called family never included me because I was too weird for them again, this whole, like I'm different thing. My father never treated me with respect. My father was always make me stand out in the worst possible way, yet bring up how I fail at school or can't get out of bed simply because I don't want to leave home.

He makes me look like a freak to his family and friends. He says so much, but look on his bad side. So here you see, this is something that, that young girls especially in your diary even saw this. You were like, why am I freaking out that like my parents are cheering for me at a sports game? Like they're trying to be nice.

You had the ability to like have some self reflection on like, why do I care that my parents are trying to.

Simone Collins: Oh, I'm crazy.

Malcolm Collins: That's what's happening. And I'd also point out here that what kids are afraid of [00:33:00] is their parents in impotent ways trying to get them to do things. It's not their parents in effective ways trying to get them to do things.

And I think it's the impotence. Of the way her father interacted with her as well as the social shaming and connection of himself to her in these you know, big in person environments that created this kind of language. One of the ways I think that will really help avoid this with our daughters and boys.

is I really want to include them in the podcast. I really want to include them in our social media in the same way that I talk with you. I'd love to have days where it's one of them or something like that, you know, or two of them instead of us, you know, make this more of a family affair. And I think that if you have somebody regularly, publicly broadcasting the way that they're thinking about things and People notice red flags like the type of red flags that she was clearly exhibiting.

They can help constructively steer them [00:34:00] back onto a good path. And these sorts of deep conversations where she got to signal what she thought is something that is clear that she just wasn't having with important people in her life.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. It was all going online or inward, which was very toxic for her.

Malcolm Collins: Well, won't your kids find some outlet like that? Unlikely, because if your parents, and this is the way that's actually happening to me now, because we have such a big audience, I like stopped responding to Facebook or comments or anything like that, because I'm like, I know this person has built rage in me and I want to explain to them why they're so stupid, but why am I wasting time responding to this person?

When at any given time, day or night, there's over a hundred people watching me, like. I should be focused on the messages that I'm putting out to a wider platform, not this one individual on Facebook who pissed me off.

Simone Collins: Yeah, maybe. And there's also that element that I [00:35:00] think a lot of everyone wants to be heard in some way.

And for many people feeling like they're heard by some audience online, maybe some way to make them feel better. I suppose, so like she might have felt sufficiently heard if she felt she had an audience that engaged with her ideas, however small and maybe, I don't know, I'm not sure.

Malcolm Collins: No, but it's really hard.

No, it's clear. She mentioned that a few times. If she had a wider audience, she wouldn't have done this.

Simone Collins: Oh, wow. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: But because a lot of the social capital of today's use is based on how many people are watching you are looking at you online. Which I think she felt like, especially as AI begins to grow, like, am I ever going to have that?

Am I ever going to have people who care what I say or think or am doing?

Simone Collins: That's interesting.

Malcolm Collins: All right. So next I was the wrong child of the family. My parents admit they didn't want me nor ever did. Even if I'm grown, I'm always the one [00:36:00] who sat or sat around in the other room because they didn't want to interact with me at any point in time. Then I stayed in my room all day during the day and night and after and before school as well.

Again, you can see, Incredibly bright. And this is why I don't think that this is a faked manifesto. I

Simone Collins: would say articulate. The word you're looking for is articulate. She could be very bright and just not have been instructed well in writing.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, but I think if she was, you know, she would have at least put it through an AI to fix the grammar.

I mean, if it's the last thing that's going out there.

Simone Collins: I think a lot of people don't show their kids these resources. We've met plenty of kids of really, really smart, articulate people. Okay. Who have not even really told their kids about. And they live in sheltered enough worlds where they're not using those tools to cheat on everything yet.

I think that AI adoption is pretty lumpy even among young people.

Malcolm Collins: That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah, maybe she just didn't engage with it. And. I also want to note on this last one that I thought [00:37:00] was pretty interesting is she talks about her parents not wanting her.

And this brings me to the part of pronatalism that I get so disgusted with, which is a pronatalist that are like, it is pronatalist to ban condoms and to ban pornography.

Simone Collins: Oh, we

Malcolm Collins: want someone to get someone pregnant because like they couldn't like get off. Like, is that, are you really that like insane of a person?

Like, no, we don't want the people to exist who only exist because their parents. Lacked self control.

Simone Collins: Yeah, not cool.

Malcolm Collins: Not cool. Insane, actually. I am not hate. I am simply pointing this out. You and the system will always suck. Therefore, we need a revolution. Nobody understands that, though. Nor do people understand the fact that they probably sat next to me in class and never thought a single word about me, nor ever really thought to.

I don't really care, though, to be honest. Nobody really has. But I'm such Such teen angst here. First of all, like she wants people to think about her and to notice her, but she [00:38:00] also wants to not focus on people. We talk about what it is to go through puberty as a young girl, and it's a desire to be treasured.

And that's not what she's feeling in society. And it was not something she was able to generate.

Simone Collins: Well, it's horrible because it's a desire to be treasured, often accompanied by, not always, but often accompanied by a disgust with oneself. Because you're going through puberty and it doesn't always look that great, you know,

Malcolm Collins: to look great.

It was her, it was not bad.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay. Lucky her. Must be nice. The

Malcolm Collins: interesting thing is that she seemed almost pathologically against like a makeup or trying to doll herself up in any extent. And she still looks pretty fine.

Simone Collins: Oh, wow.

Malcolm Collins: You know, so, I, I, yeah, that was not the issue with her. You

Simone Collins: say this knowing you, you can admit this was the issue with me, right?

You didn't think I looked okay. Right.

Malcolm Collins: I don't know. I think you [00:39:00] guys are probably around the same attractiveness level. Oh no,

Simone Collins: then she probably felt super ugly because I looked freaking horrible. Okay. Yeah. Then if you thought I looked okay as an adolescence, then we have words.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, as an adolescence, I'm talking today as an adolescence.

Yeah. You probably would have been by average person considered less attractive than her.

Simone Collins: Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. All right. So she was, yeah. I just want to calibrate there. No, but I mean, I don't want to talk about Not everyone goes through their ugly duckling phases. Not saying I became a swan, but I'm not at the nadir of my

Malcolm Collins: attractiveness.

Hold on. What I'm saying here is this is actually in Okay, so it is weird to have to try to judge the attractiveness of a 15 year old girl because she's a kid, right? Well, especially at

Simone Collins: school. And it's also sad. That, well, okay, maybe it's not, because I was gonna say like, I don't remember other people writing

me a tracking list of the Columbine shooters, but I think they did.

Malcolm Collins: Just, just, just Google her. .

Simone Collins: Oh, this is so bad. Oh yeah, [00:40:00] no. No, she's attractive. She looks very sad, but she's, she's an attractive. No, definitely. She looks way better than I did as a teen thing. I mean, I feel okay.

So you see what I mean when I'm like top 10

Malcolm Collins: percent of women, right? Her age.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. Yeah. No, but it's weird to be sorry. I will say it is weird to have to say this about a 15 year old, but it's actually important because when you're talking about teenage girls, a huge part of angst or hatred with the world can come from the perceptions of their own attractiveness of the other individuals.

And so it's important to be able to say No, she was not unattractive in anything. She was only attracted into the spectrum. Mm-hmm. For somebody who never did her show, that's also

Simone Collins: though, let's keep, you know, very common issue. Body dysmorphia and teenage girls. I mean, , [00:41:00] she doesn't, doesn't complain ever about being unattractive.

She doesn't, yeah, she doesn't. So that, that clearly wasn't the issue here. The issue here was a, a. Well, maybe, I mean, maybe she would have been better off if she was body dysmorphic because then her hatred would have turned inward. And like I said, she would have either gone trans or anorexic or cut. I

Malcolm Collins: actually think that might be part of what led her to this form of radicalization.

Yeah, she didn't, she wasn't

Simone Collins: hating herself enough. She needed to hate herself more.

Malcolm Collins: She didn't have an obvious excuse. For all of the emotions she was feeling, she didn't have a, she wasn't ugly enough because I'm ugly or, oh, I'm feeling this because I'm trans or, oh, I'm feeling this because I'm, you know, ex discriminated group, you know, she had, she was a, a white straight girl, right?

Like, above average attractiveness. So there was no outlet other than just, no, it's just society that's broken.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: When you get this blackmailed,

And I also think that her goal for trying to fix society is interesting because she didn't feel like she had agency to do that, which [00:42:00] is a huge thing. We focus on with our kids and future day and all.

Yeah, you have the agency to fix it.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that's messed up. Yeah, that she, but I don't, I think that was all just a just so. Story there that I'm, you know, taking myself out and she just hurt and she was angry and it was displaced aggression against herself and others that. She turned to

Malcolm Collins: yeah, and the final one continue the final line here.

I clip is the wolf hunts its prey and continues life with no other bruises or scars. There is no predator and prey anymore. It is all filth walking. There's nothing more with filth. It simply cannot die or make hunts real. If only. They want is value. Finally, one learns that boredom is a disease of civilization.

That's what [00:43:00] she concluded her manifesto is.

Simone Collins: So it's on we again.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And if you look at her social media posts, they're very like pay attention to me sort of stuff leading up to this. They were things like the quiet ones always strike the loudest and I'm what you made me. They're almost like live, laugh, love of teenage angst.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: I plan to be a school shooter. She just had that, that Pinterest board. Oh, what we should not be making light of this is bad. I they're not, this is no, no, we should

Malcolm Collins: be, this is the way that you prevent this is you make light of it in a way where people who have these feelings realize that they are so basic, they should be scoffed at and not to air them.

Because this is not what she expected. She expected to be thought of as weird. or different or out there because that's what she wanted to be thought of as unique, not basic.

Simone Collins: That's

Malcolm Collins: the biggest [00:44:00] fear of every teenage girl is that they'll be thought of as ordinary. I'll put the American beauty.

Speaker 5: I don't think there's anything worse than the.

Malcolm Collins: You haven't even seen American beauty all the way through.

I tried to watch it with you and you like stopped.

Simone Collins: No, but I'm going to give you clips from virgin suicides because That also is just so

You're not even old enough to know how bad life gets. Obviously, doctor. You've never been a 13 year old girl.

Malcolm Collins: And then other clips here the Quotes The countdown has begun. They'll know what I mean when the time comes. Um Well, and I, I

Simone Collins: do wonder what If the boyfriend has access to this Google Doc, did he not

Malcolm Collins: No, this is not Google Doc stuff, this is stuff she was posting publicly leading up to this.

Simone Collins: No, no, no, but I'm referring to the Google Doc manifesto that he shared.

Malcolm Collins: I wouldn't have thought that this definitely meant a school shooting was coming. Oh,

Simone Collins: I mean, you know, you weren't 90 [00:45:00] percent sure.

Malcolm Collins: Genuinely, my thoughts if I was a boyfriend is, she's gonna spell check this before she does the school shooting.

Like, I'm gonna grammar check this before I'll get scared when she grammar checks her manifesto, but an ungrammar checked manifesto. I'm like, she's probably not going to leave that public. We've been seriously depressed before you just kind of things fall through the cracks. You know, here, here are some other social media posts leading up to this.

Okay. I am a shadow, but I will make them see.

Simone Collins: Oh,

well, if she wasn't dead already, she'd die of the cringe as she read back what she posted.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, actually a lot of this reads to me somebody who might have become like an interesting based person if they had made it out of this phase. That's

Simone Collins: the, that is the tragedy. That is, I mean, well, the, the, the tragedies, the, the innocent people too, who were killed by this, which is devastating.

I, I, I mean, we, we freak out. I mean, [00:46:00] our son asked to go to public school and one of my first thoughts when we were like, well, I mean, you want to try it out, but I'm like, oh. I don't want him to get shot. You know, it's, it's just a thing in American public schools. And I don't like that. And this is no, no.

Stanley, well, do you want to tell your father about what happened at school today? I flunked my math quiz. No, the other thing. What other thing? Oh, the school shooting? Yes, the school shooting! Oh yeah, some kids shot up the school. Was it you? No.

Did you get shot? No. Oh. Well, what's this about failing a math quiz?

Simone Collins: Yeah, that's really sad. We should get flak jackets for our kids. Good weight training anyway, you know?

Malcolm Collins: That'd actually be quite a [00:47:00] thing. And I think we should do it. Is there a kids going to school in flak jackets? If he won't leave public school, we will send him in a bulletproof vest and other people might make fun of him.

And he's like, Hey, school shootings are real. Like he'd be, he'd be known as like such a thing on, on, on campus.

Simone Collins: Oh, he'd just be like, punch me, bro. Cause he keeps saying bro now. My God, bro. He won't stop. Everything's bro. Oh boy. Geez. Okay. I need to get him on like 1950s slang. That'd be much better. Gee willikers.

Gee willikers. Come at me, sir.

Malcolm Collins: But yeah, you're, you're right. I love you to ask Simone. And I, I, I think it's important to investigate things like this so that we can learn how to raise our kids better.

And to avoid. Becoming this sort of person, you know, because people are always like, Oh, your kids are gonna like kill you or go crazy or whatever.

Right. And I think that, it's very [00:48:00] important that we investigate why people actually go crazy. Like, what are they talking about?

Simone Collins: Well, so let's break it down, make sure they're heard, give them agency. Cause she really didn't feel like she had agency in the world. Give them hardship and responsibility and like, you know, make them touch grass and by make them touch grass.

I mean, Surround them with things that make them realize that the world is not all about them, that there are other people around them who also have needs and also live in the world. So they don't realize they realize that there are a small, yes, they're small and yes, they're meaningless, but they can also fix things and make a big difference in other people's lives and in the world, you know, because she'd gotten half the way there, right?

I'm small, I'm meaningless. No one cares, but she didn't go a little bit further. to be like, oh, and because other people don't care about me, they only care about themselves. I can impact their lives in a way that's very meaningful to them, you know, and I can change the world because a lot of people are very thoughtless and not changing.

Malcolm Collins: And I think the final thing is [00:49:00] have a masculine Goal directed figure in their lives and when people hear masculine today in an online environment What they hear is oh like andrew, right? Yeah, I always point out No, no. No, you don't want to be the claudius from the movie gladiator. You want to or the comedist from gladiator?

You want to be max really? Maximus you want to be the, the leader. The person was a vision for a better future because that is what women actually are drawn to. They are drawn to individuals with agency who want to make the world a better place and have an, a plan for doing that an aspiration of doing that, if you look at her complaints about her father and stuff, like he sat around all day smoking weed, like that is the antithesis of that, right?

Simone Collins: This sort

Malcolm Collins: of.

Simone Collins: When I hug our kids each night and tell them that I love them and tell them that their job is to fix the world and they promise to fix the [00:50:00] world. I really mean it. I'm like, I really need you to fix the world. Octavian Torsen. Like, please, you don't understand. Like, but actually.

Malcolm Collins: I

Simone Collins: love

Malcolm Collins: it.

Because no one else is, that's always a weird thing to me that so many people are like, wow, you guys like, so have like main character syndrome and it's like no one else is doing anything like what you have to have main character syndrome main character syndrome isn't a bad thing. Everything of grandeur in this world.

Was achieved by somebody with delusions of grandeur. That is the only All grandeur starts with

Simone Collins: delusions. Yes, it is, it is proper.

Malcolm Collins: That is the only way you fix things. You have to be willing to have the type of aspirations for yourself and for the future that when you tell someone, like Noah's Ark, they're like, wow, that's f*****g crazy.

And you're like, well, no one else is doing it. Anyway, love you to death. Have a great day.

Simone Collins: I love you too. [00:51:00] Hug

Malcolm Collins: your family and be nice to your parents people. If you're a teenager and you want to look down on them, you are pre programmed to feel that way. Try not to try to see some continuity. Look to your ancestors.

You can't admire your parents.

Simone Collins: I love you. I hope people get better. I'm sorry for everyone who was hurt by this. The end. The end.

And we'll

do the totally

Malcolm Collins: straight

Simone Collins: neck. I saw something that about historical spoons. Remember when we went to that museum in St. Andrews and they had the spoon that you needed to take to the cafeterias to eat?

Malcolm Collins: No, I don't. You don't

Simone Collins: remember there was like a little like glass case that showed someone's spoon because every time you went to the cafeteria to eat at the university when it was first founded, you [00:52:00] needed your spoon

Malcolm Collins: in the 1400s.

That's wild.

Simone Collins: Like a long time ago. You know, everyone had their own utensils and This concept of being born with a silver spoon actually probably meant that you were born with a silver spoon, like really fancy, you know, instead of maybe like a wooden or iron spoon or whatever it is that everyone else ate with and now I understand why that ceremonial gift came to be.

Because I never, I had a

Malcolm Collins: silver spoon as a kid. I remember it in among my baby gifts because I saw the yeah, it's

Simone Collins: still, it's still a common ceremonial baby gift in some cultures to give them a silver spoon, but it, I never understood it or the phrase he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. And now I get it.

If you live in a society where everywhere you go, you have to have an eating utensil. You go to a restaurant, you have to bring your eating utensil, you go to a cafeteria, you have to bring your eating utensil, you [00:53:00] go to your family's dinner table, you bring your own eating utensil. If you are showing up with the Ferrari of eating utensils, wow.

Well, he was

Malcolm Collins: Everybody notices that. Everyone notices that.

Simone Collins: Because otherwise you have to like save up for an ice spoon, you know. By the way This is what people struggled for in the past.

Malcolm Collins: You did a great job with the salsa you made me. A few notes. Okay. Blend it longer. Some things, especially the jalapenos, were not properly chopped up, like they were still really big chunks.

But other than that, really solid job. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I think The, the, the recipe that I was following just had you put everything into, the thing is they had you put everything into a blender, but we don't have a blender. We only have a food processor and it doesn't quite blend non chopped foods the same way.

So I just have to account.

Malcolm Collins: Should we get a blender? They don't cost much.

Simone Collins: I was thinking about getting one on Black Friday, but we just don't have a lot of space for

Malcolm Collins: appliances and we have,

Simone Collins: are you serious? We have an entire basement with, with shelves. It's already so cluttered. If [00:54:00] you get, okay, we can get a blender.

If you get rid of those plant things that you're never going to use together, taking up so much space, a deal.

Malcolm Collins: No, not at

Simone Collins: all.

Malcolm Collins: I will use those again. Okay.

Simone Collins: How about this? You need to use them or they will disappear. No,

Malcolm Collins: because the kids will likely use them.

Simone Collins: You really think so?

Malcolm Collins: I really think so, yes.

Simone Collins: Alright.

Speaker 6: Octavian, I want to, I want to ask you about the really cute note you had written for me saying, Mommy, I'm going to give you money tomorrow. I love you, Mom, from dear Octavian. Why did you decide to write that note?

Because you want it to be nice? But we have to find it first. Hi, Titan! Hello, love! Hi! Aww! Big hug! You're so fun!

Do you want some popcorn for dinner? [00:55:00] I made some. Yeah, buddy. What?

Speaker 7: Toasty!