Making America Dumb Again: The Stakes of Slashing Climate Science — Ep200: Ralph Keeling & Ray Weiss
Mar 12, 2025
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In this engaging discussion, Ralph Keeling, a Professor at Scripps Institution of Oceanography and son of the legendary climate scientist Charles Keeling, shares insights on the ongoing importance of the Keeling Curve in tracking carbon levels. Alongside Ray Weiss, a geochemistry expert known for his role in the Montreal Protocol, they highlight the alarming budget cuts facing climate science funding. Their conversation covers the fight against ozone depletion, the challenges of achieving net-zero emissions, and the critical need for sustained climate monitoring to inform future policies.
Significant budget cuts to agencies like NOAA jeopardize vital long-term climate research, risking our understanding of environmental changes.
Ralph Keeling's ongoing measurements of atmospheric carbon dioxide emphasize the urgency of monitoring emissions to inform climate action strategies.
The success of the Montreal Protocol illustrates the effectiveness of collaborative international efforts in addressing environmental crises like climate change.
Deep dives
Impact of Scientific Funding Cuts
Significant cuts to funding for scientific organizations like the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) have raised concerns about the sustainability of long-term environmental observations. As funding priorities shift, maintaining critical data collection efforts becomes increasingly challenging. Protests by scientists and concerned citizens reflect the urgent need to recognize the importance of foundational scientific research for understanding climate change and its effects. The deterioration of funding could undermine efforts to monitor environmental changes and inform effective climate management strategies.
The Keeling Curve and Carbon Measurements
Professor Ralph Keeling continued his father's legacy by measuring atmospheric carbon dioxide levels and focusing on oxygen as a means to understand carbon uptake by land and ocean. His work highlights that carbon dioxide concentrations are rising at an accelerating rate, which poses significant risks for the climate. Keeling emphasizes the importance of empirical measurements in assessing the efficacy of climate actions, indicating that if fossil fuel consumption declines, CO2 levels could stabilize relatively swiftly. His findings serve as a reminder that consistent monitoring is crucial for tracking changes in atmospheric gases.
Ozone Depletion: A Success Story
The Montreal Protocol represents a successful international effort to phase out ozone-depleting substances, primarily CFCs, due to their destructive impact on the ozone layer. Key scientific discoveries about the mechanism through which CFCs and other gases harm ozone were crucial in raising public awareness and prompting policy change. Monitoring efforts following the treaty's enactment proved critical for ensuring compliance and assessing air quality improvements. The international response to the ozone crisis is often viewed as a model for tackling climate change, demonstrating the power of collaborative action.
Challenges in Measuring Atmospheric Gases
The scientific community currently faces challenges in measuring trace gases, particularly nitrous oxide and others that impact the ozone layer and contribute to climate change. Emissions of nitrous oxide, primarily from agricultural activities, continue to rise, presenting a significant environmental concern that has yet to be addressed effectively. The difficulty in finding alternatives to nitrogen fertilizers complicates ongoing efforts to mitigate these emissions. Consistent monitoring and strong regulatory frameworks are essential to manage these ongoing challenges to global atmospheric health.
The Role of Continuous Data Collection
Continuous and long-term environmental monitoring is essential for understanding climatic trends and notifying policy responses. Historical data sets, like those derived from the Keeling Curve, provide vital insights that inform current environmental policies and climate goals. However, a lack of funding and support for ongoing scientific observation undermines the credibility and efficacy of these efforts. Innovating funding solutions and creating organizational structures to protect long-term climate research is critical for ensuring informed decision-making on global environmental issues.
As the U.S. swings a budgetary axe at the federal government, one of the biggest casualties is climate science. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) faces a brutal 20% workforce reduction—jeopardizing critical research just when we need it most. So, what’s really at stake? And is Donald Trump Making America Dumb Again?
This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington takes us deep inside the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, where scientists are on the front lines of tracking our planet’s most urgent environmental challenges.
Meet Ralph Keeling, the scientist carrying forward his father’s legendary legacy—the Keeling Curve, the definitive record of our atmosphere’s rising carbon dioxide levels. His decades of meticulous measurements lay bare the stark truth about climate change and why these long-term observations are more vital now than ever.
And that’s not all. We also sit down with Professor Ray Weiss, the atmospheric detective who played a key role in saving the ozone layer. His work helped drive the Montreal Protocol—one of humanity’s greatest environmental victories.
With climate science under attack, what lessons can we learn from past successes? And what happens if we stop listening to the data?
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Division Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.