Clare and Yves are joined by Duane Hamacher, a cultural astronomer from the University of Melbourne, specialising in Indigenous astronomy. Duane’s book, The First Astronomers: How Indigenous Elders Read the Stars (2022), is the product of 10 years of collaborative research with Indigenous elders. How does a boy from Missouri wind up reading the antipodean stars? What gets overlooked when knowledge is discredited as myth and legend? The group discusses outsiders, variable stars changing the history of science, and researching with ears open, mouth shut.