[PREVIEW] Taking Ozempic for "Wardrobe" Reasons

You’re listening to Burnt Toast!

We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay, and it’s time for your January Indulgence Gospel.

It’s time for another mailbag episode, so we’ll be answering questions like:

⭐️ Is it anti-fatness to care that your partner eats faster than you?

⭐️ What ultra processed foods can we not live without?

⭐️ What should you do when your friend starts weight loss drugs for “wardrobe” reasons?

⭐️ Did Virginia buy the air fryer and if so, what is she air frying?

To hear our answers, you’ll need to be a paid Burnt Toast subscriber. Subscriptions are $7 per month or $70 for the year.If you’re already a paid subscriber, you can add on a subscription to Big Undies, Corinne’s newsletter about clothes, for 20% off.

To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page.

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctors, or any kind of healthcare providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

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Episode 177 Transcript

Virginia

Do we have any pressing Burnt Toast business to discuss before we get into our questions? Anything new?

Corinne

Nothing feels new.

Virginia

We’re all just hanging in there. My house has the flu still, but hopefully by the time this episode comes out, that will not be true.

[Post-recording note: It is still true!]

Corinne

Shall I read the first question?

Virginia

Go for it.

Corinne

Okay, it’s a long one! Buckle in.

I am grateful for the labor of your book; it was meaningful to me and sparked important conversations with my loved ones. The book answered many questions and has helped me develop my thinking. Yet one issue persists, and I hope you can help me explore it.

What do I do when my partner eats much faster than me, takes up the space and amount of food he needs, but doesn’t leave enough for me? I feel petty asking this question, but it holds deep meaning for me.

My partner was fat for much of his life and has had a complex relationship with his body and food. I don’t want to shame him, as he was shamed often in his youth. Still, I find myself resenting him deeply when he eats so fast that not enough is left for me. On the other hand, I’ve always been nervous about there being enough food. I tend to eat slowly, leaving some behind to ensure there’s enough for both of us—even though, deep down, I’d love to devour the food just as he does.

On a deeper level, this feels tied to the concept of taking up space, a transformative idea for me. The notion that I don’t need to make myself small has been a crucial area of growth. But when someone else, like my partner, takes up space and eats all he needs, I sometimes feel he is inconsiderate, taking my space, and taking advantage of me. This triggers a rigid response in me—I want to strictly divide our food, even though our needs may differ at any given moment. Then, I feel compelled to eat only what I’ve “claimed,” sacrificing flexibility and connection in favor of fairness. The meal becomes about rules instead of enjoyment.

This leaves me wondering: Do I harbor hidden anti-fat bias? How can I learn to take up space myself and encourage my loved ones to do the same, without becoming rigid, entitled, or instilling these same tendencies in my partner?

Virginia

There’s so much to this question.

I have to say, when we first read it, when it came in, I had a little bit of a knee jerk “yes, this is your hidden anti-fat bias” response.

But as you’re reading it this time, I’m thinking more about the gender dynamics at play here. There’s a lot to say about how men and women are socialized differently around food and sharing food and meal etiquette. So this question rests at a weird intersection of these two issues.

Corinne

Yeah, it’s so complicated. When I read it, I think about food scarcity, and how experiencing that in your younger years can really impact you for the rest of your life.

Virginia

And it sounds like there’s a background of that here, for both of them, right? If her partner was a fat kid, he might have been told to eat less. So he develops a scarcity mindset and copes with by eating as fast as he can before someone takes the food away, which is heartbreaking, but definitely happens.

Then, on the other hand, she is always nervous about there being enough food, maybe because there wasn’t enough food at some point in her life. So she eats less.

It sounds like she is starting from a place of, “it’s my job to make sure everyone has enough to eat,” but then quickly getting to the point of, “but now somehow my needs get sacrificed to that.”

Corinne

I also appreciate the level of self-reflection in this letter. Because when I was reading it the first time, I was like, well, just divide the food equally! But she’s like, “I’ve done that. I have a rigid response to it.” And then I’m sacrificing connection in favor of fairness, which does feel legit.

Virginia

I almost feel like we have to take this apart and deal with this in parts.

So just to think more about the gender piece for a second: One thing I see happen so often in heterosexual partnerships, is a man will start eating a meal before a woman has even sat down at the table. This was the reality in my homes growing up. I saw my father and my stepfather eating before my mom or my stepmother even sat down at the table. And I see it often in other relatives and friends now.

In my own house, I frequently die on the mountain of no one eats until the cook sits down. And if someone doesn’t start to eat before I sit down, I notice and thank them and make a big deal about it. Because I want my kids to learn this matters. But it’s so incredibly gendered. Men are used to being served food. That might be flipped if they cooked the meal, but often even if they were involved in the food prep, they then sit down and just start eating and don’t wait. And it makes me incandescent with rage when I see it play out, because it is such an obvious way of saying “This is the power dynamic here. This woman serves me. I get to eat. My needs are being centered.”

So if that’s happening, rather than getting into how fast he eats or how much he eats or any of those things—where you can very quickly be in anti-fat territory—you can say, “As a basic courtesy and sign of respect, can we sit down together and start eating at the same time?” Because it’s so awful to sit down and be like, “They’re already done,” and you haven’t even taken a bite. It is a panicky feeling. So I just want to name that. She doesn’t explicitly say this t is what is happening, but I wonder if that’s at play, and if it is, I want it to stop.

Corinne

Well and similarly, could he just ask if he can have a second serving or something? It does sort of feel like there’s maybe a low level of like inconsideration here.

Virginia

Yes, that has nothing to do with his body size or his relationship with food. That just has to do with him not being a very just considerate meal partner.

Corinne

I feel like if I was having dinner with someone and took a serving and wanted more, I’d be like, “Do you also want more? I just want to make sure there’s enough for both of us.”

So part of me is wondering, have you had this conversation with him or no?

Virginia

I mean, what we teach kids around this to avoid the scarcity mindset, but also make sure there’s enough is: Everyone gets firsts and then if you want seconds, you say, “Does anyone else want some?” And you offer it around as you’re taking your seconds. You can still have some, but you just build in that skill of noticing and checking, does anyone want some?

Corinne

Would you make the kid wait to have seconds until everyone was done with the first round?

Virginia

I mean, I do not. But it’s different with kids. They’re not going to want to eat the thing that I’m going to want more of probably. I’m like, Yes, have more Cheez its. That’s fine.

And it’s easy to do when it’s something like cookies or cupcakes. Or even cake, you can sort of eyeball it, and make sure you’re leaving enough for people to have seconds. I think that’s what it comes down to. Just make sure you’re leaving enough for other people to have some, whether or not they’re done with their portion.

Corinne

Because it sounds like he doesn’t have that sense. So then it’s like, how do you have that conversation? Or do you?

Virginia

Well, I think this is where I kind of need to understand more about the overall gender dynamics. Who is doing the food prep? If he’s not doing the food prep, how appreciative is he of that labor? And if he’s eating before you even sit down, then I would approach it very much like a “let’s discuss gender equity in our marriage or in our relationship” conversation. It’s really not about his relationship with his body.

I would hope you have a comfort level with your partner where you can say that very clearly, “This isn’t about your body size. This isn’t about how much you eat. This is about I do the work to put dinner on the table and it feels disrespectful when we don’t share the meal.”

Corinne

I think you could still tell him how you’re feeling about it. I don’t think you can say, “I think you’re eating too much.” But I think you could say, “Mealtimes feel really stressful for me because I’m worried about not getting enough to eat.”

And the other thing I wonder is: Could you just cook more food?

Virginia

I was going to say that, too. I don’t know if this anxiety about enough food is like, are they on a very tight budget and they’re limiting? But could you make more of the rice or the beans? One of the lower cost ingredients that would help make sure there’s enough for everyone to fill up on?

Corinne

Well, and I feel like that is where then we start to get into some anti-fat bias. Are you worried that if you make more food, he’ll eat more?

Virginia

This is a good question. Maybe it’s not budget. Maybe she is doing some subtle portion control around only making as much as she thinks they should eat.

Corinne

And he’s clearly needing more food. And it seems like she’s needing more food, too.

Virginia

She says she wants to be devouring the food like he does, but she’s not letting herself. So giving yourself that permission, and freedom, to devour the food is another piece to work on. And maybe in order to do that you need to make more food for both of you to whatever extent you can realistically do that, so that you can both have your scarcity mindsets reassured.

Because it really sounds like they both have a scarcity mindset, but it’s manifesting in opposite ways.

Corinne

I do think for me it has been helpful, when I’m feeling this kind of stress about not having enough to eat, to just have way more than I want.

Virginia

Even if that’s like adding bread to the table. It doesn’t mean you’re making three pot roasts necessarily, but more potatoes, more of the things that will fill you up, but won’t break the budget.

This is one I would love an update on, if it is something you guys do manage to talk about, or how it goes. And I’m also curious to hear what listeners think, because I think it’s a common dynamic. I think different appetites in relationships is a common stumbling block to sharing meals together.

Corinne

Yeah, that makes sense.

Virginia

Or different attitudes about appetites, I guess. Because, again, she’s saying she wants to eat more.

Corinne

And the socialization part, like different ideas of what’s polite. Or what’s considerate.

Virginia

When in doubt, be considerate to the person who made the meal. That’s my bottom line.

I’ll read the next one.

How do you handle it when someone you like starts a semaglutide journey for reasons of, quote, wardrobe?

Corinne

Well, it’s hard for me to believe that anyone is starting semaglutides truly only for the reason of wardrobe. I can imagine that that could be part of it, or that could be what they’re telling people, but I feel like it’s probably more complicated than that.

Virginia

What I often hear, is people will say the clothes thing. And they’ll say, “it’s really about the budget,” or like, “I don’t want to buy a whole new wardrobe that doesn’t feel doable or accessible.” But I mean, semaglutide is a pretty expensive drug. So, question mark there. Usually, what they really mean is, “I don’t like how I look in the bigger clothes I have to wear right now.”

So I think reasons of wardrobe are always rooted in “I like how I look thinner and I want to be thinner.” It’s definitely just a code word for saying, I want to be thinner because I think I’m prettier that way, or, you know, more aesthetically pleasing to myself that way.

Corinne

I mean, it’s not great.

Virginia

So, how to handle it? I mean, if this is someone, you have a personal relationship with, boundaries. Wishing them well. But this isn’t a topic you really want to be keeping close tabs on.

Corinne

If it’s someone on social media, unfollow.

Virginia

Yep. This is maybe not someone you need to be following, at least when they’re talking about this topic, which may mean unfollowing, because often when people are in this place, they want to talk about it all the time or it’ll crop up. And you can come back to them.

I mean, the reality about this kind of experiment is we know people lose weight on semaglutide and we know when they stop taking semaglutide, they regain the weight. If someone is really doing it primarily for wardrobe reasons, I don’t know that they’ve committed to staying on for their whole life. And I think a lot of the doctors who buy into the wardrobe kind of reasoning also often mislead patients. I’ve heard a couple instances of this, where they’re telling patients, “Oh yeah, we can get you to this place and then we can titrate you off.” But that’s not what the research is showing to work. There will be regain. So this is another hamster wheel this person has chosen to get on, and you can wish them well, but I think taking some space is probably good.

Corinne

Next question. I like this one.

With all the anti processed food fear mongering, what’s a processed food that makes your life easier and better?

Virginia

I mean, I have such a long list.

Corinne

I feel like it’s also worth revisiting just how many things are processed foods. We can link back to that episode.

One ultra processed food that I really love is bread.

Virginia

Bread is great. Big fan. Love bread. Love a sandwich.

Corinne

Makes my life so much better.

Virginia

Named my newsletter after it. actually.

I’m gonna name three MVPs. Rao’s pasta sauce. Such a good jarred pasta sauce, great pasta with Rao’s on it for dinner. If I need just a fast, easy dinner. I can add a side of fruit and vegetables to that. I can not. It’s great. I love it.

Frozen chocolate chip pancakes are a significant percentage of my children’s diets. They have them for breakfast with their smoothies most morning. After school snacks. It’s a meal they can make themselves because you just pop them in the microwave for a minute. I made some for a sick kid in the middle of recording episodes today with Corinne! It’s just a total go-to.

The brand we buy is actually surprisingly reasonably high in protein. I feel like people forget that protein is in foods like pancakes and pasta, but it totally is.

And then Amy’s frozen cheese and bean burritos. I just described to you one of my children, basically what they live on. And we’re covering a lot of nutrient bases this way. These are foods that she can make herself very easily. I can make for her easily. If she hates what I’ve made for dinner, I know she’s not going to starve. Everything about them is great. They’re just great staples of feeding kids. And I love them.

Corinne

I really thought you were going to say protein powder!

Virginia

I mean, we’ve talked about that before.

I have such a long list, but I was just thinking what are the things that go on the grocery list every week that I know we go through in significant quantities every week. And it’s like, easily, a jar of pasta sauce, easily, two bags of those pancakes, easily eight burritos. Those are staples for us.

Corinne

Yeah. I was trying to think about what they are for me. I often get a frozen pizza from Whole Foods, just the Whole Foods brand frozen pizza. It’s a good backup last minute meal for me. Bread, pasta.

Virginia

Have we mentioned bread enough?

Corinne

Also like, candy. I love chocolate. I feel really good when I have some type of chocolate candy in my cupboard. Tate’s chocolate chip cookies. Love to have those on hand. God, I don’t know, it’s endless.

Virginia

I really think the conversation around this whole category of foods needs so much more nuance. I am not against more regulation in the food industry if there are concerns about the levels of sugar, salt, and fat. But I think this is a regulate the industry issue. I am not here for the argument that people need to cook more from scratch, need to cook more complicated dishes, need to not rely on the convenience and efficiency of foods that offer a lot of nutrition. There’s such diversity in this category of food.

Corinne

I’m also thinking just off the top of my head, like, DoorDash. I love to DoorDash myself a sub sandwich with ultra processed meat in it. Mayonnaise. Love mayonnaise.

Virginia

My God. Imagine life without mayonnaise.

I don’t want to think about that world. Being so rigid about this whole category of foods is bad. It’s just so quickly going to fall apart unless you are growing all your own food and doing all of that totally from scratch. And there are people who do that, and that’s wonderful. But most people don’t live in a place where they can do that. They have other jobs, have children, whatever. This is not a category of food we need to just completely erase. We need some better industry regulation around it, absolutely. And then we need to just give people respect for understanding the context of their lives and making their own choices.

Corinne

Yeah, or give people more time off.

Virginia

Always a good thought.

Corinne

Not so that they have to make their own food, but…

Virginia

But if you want a society where people make their own food, what are you doing to actually make that possible?

Corinne

All right, next question is for you, Virginia.

What are you making in your air fryer, assuming you got one?

Virginia

I did get one. I got it in the Black Friday sale. I bought the Breville—We’ll link to it. It’s from William Sonoma.

Corinne

Everyone calls it Breville.

Virginia

Okay, so I’m already such an expert. The Breville. What else is my oven called? You’re the one who found it for me.

Corinne

Breville air fryer toaster oven.

Virginia

Okay, that’s what I got. I think it has a fancier name, but that’s fine. It’s what it is.

You had sent me the link. And said, everyone’s talking about this one being so good. And then when it went on super sale for Black Friday, I got it, and I freaking love it. I am converted. I guess I should probably do an air fryer essay at some point, or like a round up of what I making in it.

I talked last week about how I’m making chocolate chip cookies with great regularity, because it’s easy to make a smaller quantity of cookies, and you can make them really fast, which is fun.

They are great, as everyone told me they would be, for chicken nuggets and french fries and other frozen fried items that you want to make quickly.

Roast broccoli has been really delicious in it. I mean, mine also replaced my toaster, so, I’m toasting a bagel in it most mornings. What are some other go-tos?

Julia Turshen has a great newsletter called an ode to her air fryer. And she includes a recipe for this kale salad with chickpeas on top. And you do the chickpeas in the air fryer to make them really crispy. And I made that for Christmas, and I’m gonna make that possibly for dinner tonight, now that we’ve just talked about it because it was so freaking good. The chickpeas are excellent.

Also on my list to do that way is meatballs. Anything you can do in your oven you can do quicker in your air fryer, is the bottom line. Fish is the other thing I’m doing quite a lot in there.

Corinne

Like frozen fish?

Virginia

I do thaw the fish before, because you can thaw fish really fast. But Amy Palanjian has a recipe for salmon bites that’s really good that I’ve done in the air fryer. I think that’s the main way I’ve done fish so far. It’s shortening my cooking time. So it’s making dinner feel like less of a production because I can throw something in there and be doing something else and it’ll be done in the same time, as opposed to like, oh god, I forgot to preheat the oven an hour ago and I want to eat in 20 minutes. You can just skip that mental load of when to preheat the oven.

Corinne

Are you ever finding that you can’t fit enough of whatever you’re cooking for dinner in there?

Virginia

No, but I do think if I had a bigger household, that would be an issue. I’m usually cooking for a max of three people, and at least one of the children isn’t going to eat what’s going in the air fryer. You know what I mean? Or it’s like me and one other adult.

Or when I was hosting, I was using it, but for things like the chickpeas that were an ingredient, but not the whole meal. So I could make a full can of chickpeas to go on the salad. You couldn’t do a big hunk of meat roast in there, and you’re only going to make one dozen cookies at a time. But during the holidays, when I was making a whole bunch of cookies, I could fill up my oven and stick an extra dozen in the air fryer and it was a value add. So if you’re doing something en masse, it’s giving you another oven.

Corinne

It does make me want one.

Virginia

Well, we measured your counters, and this one won’t fit, but we’ll have to find you a smaller one.

Corinne

I have an air fryer lid for my Instant Pot, but I find it really annoying and inconvenient to use.

Virginia

That feels like too many trendy appliances trying to be everything.

Corinne

The Instant Pot is round too, so you really can’t fit very much in there.

Virginia

Yeah. This is the nice thing about the toaster oven style is it’s a quarter baking sheet size. Which was often what I was putting in the oven anyway. So now I’ve just saved the time of heating the whole big oven.

Corinne

That’s a decent size.

Virginia

I’ll read the next one. Okay, this person writes,

I’ve finally embraced having a regular Coke. It’s delicious. I do get excited when I go to a restaurant and they have Mexican Coke, since it’s made with sugar and, quote, better than high fructose corn syrup. Is this just diet culture trying to get me to spend five times as much on a bougie coke?

Corinne

This is an interesting question. Um, I feel like, yes and no. I’m also not a Coke expert. Does it taste different? I don’t know.

Virginia

It does. Mexican Coke does taste different. They are definitely upselling you.

Corinne

It’s also the glass bottle.

Virginia

Yeah, it’s trendy and cute. You’re buying the cocktail version of a Coke, basically.

Corinne

But it is the same amount of sugar, just one has more fructose versus glucose?

Virginia

That is my understanding. So, yeah, it’s diet culture to tell yourself that Mexican Coke is healthier than American Coke, because it’s sugar and sugar. It’s a wash. And yes, they are selling you on the fact that people think it’s cute in the little glass bottle.

Corinne

And also, if you like to get it, it’s fine.

Virginia

It’s a fancy way to drink Coke, and that seems delightful for you.

Corinne

Next question.

How to manage all the no buy, buy only five things, etc, which seems just like New Year’s diet restrictions.

Virginia

I feel like this is a little bit of a call in for us, since we are in the middle of our No Amazon January.

And I just want to say, with all the love: I get this response to not buying things. Like, this is my first response. And we can link back to the conversation I had with Christyna Johnson last year, where she is very much a proponent of no buy experiments, and yet we talked about how they can bring up diet culture stuff. And my bottom line is: If it feels like a diet for you, you shouldn’t do it. Don’t do it.

Corinne

Totally. I would say, if listening to us talk about it makes you feel bad, then don’t listen.

I do feel like there’s a slight difference between moralizing about food and moralizing about like—

Virginia

Consumer goods?

Corinne

And these billionaires who are actually doing evil in the world.

Virginia

Well, there’s not the health component to this. I’m not like, oh, I’m quitting Amazon for my health, right? I’m like, I’m quitting Amazon because Jeff Bezos is a terrible human being.

Corinne

I’m not quitting Amazon to try and make myself thinner.

Virginia

No, I do not expect to be thinner. I feel that it will have no bearing on my weight. But any of these experiments come with some moralizing, some expectation of perfectionism that’s hard to shed, right?

I think this listener will feel better when they listen to our wrap-up of the Amazon experiment, because I don’t think Corinne and I are shooting for perfection.

Corinne

I don’t feel like I’m deprived in any way by doing this, you know? There might be certain things that do make my life a little bit more annoying, but I don’t feel like I’m going through major deprivation, right?

Virginia

I don’t feel deprivation, but what I do think may happen is guilt when I fail at this in some way. And that guilt of like, my life became hard and complicated, and so I needed to take an easier route here, and not being able to have grace for that is similar to what happens when people fall off diets or fall off workout plans, because it becomes too hard to sustain those things within the real context of their life.

That hasn’t happened to me yet, but when and if that does, I am interested in how will I release that guilt and be like, this doesn’t need to be a perfection thing. And I think depending where you are in your divestment from dieting, this may not be good for you, because it may just trigger that same stuff.

I haven’t been on a diet since my 11-year-old was two. So I feel like I’ve got some time and space from the way that used to mess with my head, and I can experiment with something like this in a way that feels really different, but that’s just where I am with it.

Corinne

Yeah, I think it’s not like saying I’m not going to eat ice cream. It’s like, I’m not going to eat ice cream from McDonald’s. There’s still so many other options for buying the exact same stuff. Is it better for the world? Who knows?

Virginia

We don’t know. And I just really come down to like, I’m not proselytizing this. Like, if it doesn’t feel like it serves you, I think there are lots of good reasons why the context of peoples’ lives mean that cutting down consumer spending is not the thing they need to put bandwidth and energy towards.

Corinne

Yeah, and I think we also decided to do no Amazon for January. I’m not doing a no buy year.

Virginia

Seeing how this feels for January. So stay tuned for next month when you get our full report on whether we keep it going.

Okay, next question. This is a very fun one, and kind of related to the no buy stuff.

What three questions should I ask myself before clicking purchase?

Corinne

Oh man. Honestly hard to limit myself to three.

Virginia

Okay, give me some of them.

Corinne

Okay, here are some of them.

1. Have I bought stuff from this brand before that has not worked out?

2. How do I wash this? Is it dry clean only or hang dry?

3. Do I own anything similar?

Virginia

I don’t want to answer that one.

Corinne

I’m not saying if the answer is yes, that you don’t necessarily buy it! Just something to consider.

1. What’s the return policy?

Virginia

That is a big one! I have been burned so many times! Summersalt, I am talking about you! And your absolute predatory lack of return policy information.

Corinne

It’s always worth considering.

1. What is it made out of? Like, are you buying something really expensive that’s made out of plastic? Or are you buying something really expensive that’s Mongolian lamb’s wool?

2. What could I wear it with? I feel like it’s good to have at least an idea of how you’re going to wear a thing that you want to add to your closet.

Virginia

Is it final sale?

Corinne

Yeah, I mean, return policy.

Virginia

I know, but I just want to shout out the final sale thing because sometimes I think that’ll be okay and it has almost never been okay.

Corinne

Well, I think also, along those lines, it’s good to consider: Am I just wanting to buy this because it’s on deep discount? I have definitely been there.

Virginia

So many times.

Corinne

I think that’s about it for me. But that’s a lot more than three.

Virginia

That’s an amazing list. Like, you just wrote a

Big Undies

newsletter for us. I don’t think I have anything to add other than specifically shouting out the evils of Summersalt again. I’ve spent so much money on their bathing suits. But they don’t work for people with boobs. So if you have boobs, just don’t shop there and don’t be me, and keep thinking that it’s worth trying them again, because it’s not.

Also for some reason on my last order, they wouldn’t give me a refund. I can only exchange. So I’m just like, repeatedly sending back two swimsuits that keep not working to try two more. Just take my $200. Like, fuck it. You robbed me, Summersalt. So that and final sale are not your friends.

Corinne

Ready for the next question?

If you operated a hotel of your dreams, what would the amenities be?

Virginia

Ooh, I love this. This is so fun. Absolutely room service. I think a lot of even nice hotels are phasing out room service and I’m strongly against it. I don’t want to go sit in your restaurant, especially if I’m traveling alone. I want to eat dinner in bed watching bad hotel TV. And I don’t want to have to go downstairs and come back upstairs.

Corinne

That’s a really good point.

Virginia

I feel very strongly about that.

What would you add?

Corinne

It’s funny because I was going to say an enormous and luxurious complimentary breakfast buffet. But I feel like now that I’ve heard yours, I’d rather have room service.

Virginia

Just bring it to me actually.

Corinne

Enormous and free luxury breakfast buffet in my room.

Virginia

Set up in my room. That sounds fabulous. I’m going to say enormous and luxurious bathrobes and towels, because that is never the case.

Corinne

I was going to say spa amenities, like pool, hot tub, sauna, steam room. Stables. You know.

Virginia

Stables. Visiting puppies would be nice. Puppy happy hour. I might leave my room for that, to go pet the dogs.

This is going to tie back to our processed food conversation. My stepmother has this really great rant she does periodically about how we cannot be mad at families for eating at McDonald’s until good restaurants start putting in play places. Because it is, like the most brilliant thing McDonald’s ever did, that, like, you can go and eat dinner and your kids can be in the play place. It is always gross, and some kids peed in it, like it is what it is, but if you are trying to eat out to dinner as a family with any child under the age of eight, a play place is a godsend. And nice restaurants should have them, and it’s gross that they don’t.

Corinne

What about just child care?

Virginia

Child care would be great. But I’m saying specifically at this hotel, I want there to be a great playground. If it’s not a hotel that accepts children, it’s fine. If it’s an adults only hotel, I respect that. I’d rather just know up front. But if you accept children, I would like there to be a good playground option near where parents can sit and eat their meal. That’s not like out back somewhere. I want to be able the parents can sit and have their cocktail and their dinner, and the kids can be on the play structure.

Corinne

One thing I was thinking about was gyms, but I actually sort of feel like I don’t really care about a hotel gym and I would prefer like a hotel garden or something.

Virginia

Much better. No one needs a hotel gym.

Ask Corinne!

Virginia

So our last question is for our new Ask Corinne segment about dating and sex. And this person wants to know:

What are some good prompts or questions to ask on dating apps?

And I think we should expand this to include good questions to ask on dates.

Corinne

Yeah, this is an interesting question. I hate answering the prompts on dating apps.

Virginia

Yes. Those cutesy prompts are so annoying.

Corinne

One thing I sometimes like to ask on a date is: What is your schedule? Very basic. But I feel like it can be really hard and annoying to date someone who has an insanely different schedule than you.

Virginia

No, I think that’s smart.

Corinne

Even in terms of like, getting up early versus staying up late. And also, like, do they work weekends and you work the week? Or do they work nights and you work days?

Virginia

I mean, as a divorced parent, I think this actually comes up really quickly. But there was one guy I went on a date with over the summer who I didn’t want a second date with for so many reasons, but one part of it was I figured out our custody schedules were opposite. And I was like, “Well just forget it we’ll never line up. There’s no point, you don’t exist to me.”

Corinne

Yeah, it’s not a fun or sexy question, but it can really make or break things.

Virginia

I read a really good piece by

Susan Cain

, author ofQuiet, about how to make conversation. And she talked about how a common mistake people make with questions is they ask fact-based questions instead of feeling-based questions.

So instead of saying, like, what do you do for work? I mean, you could start there, but then ask something like, “What’s the best part of your job?” Or what do you find most frustrating about that? So that then you’re getting people to go a layer deeper.

Corinne

That’s a really good tip to move it from facts to feelings.

I also think, like with the questions on apps, I think people can get really hung up on liking the same stuff, which I think can be important. It can be annoying if you’re dating someone and you have the completely different taste in movies or something. But I think if you see someone’s profile that’s naming all your favorite bands, it can be easy to be like, yes, this is the person for me.

Virginia

No, you just have similar Spotify algorithms.

Corinne

How important is that?

Virginia

The algorithm has picked this for you. So much of the connection is not like, do you both like the same sports.

Corinne

And also, sometimes it’s fun to learn about stuff through a person you’re dating.

Virginia

In terms of the profiles, I also realized it was important to mix it up because I think I had a detail about having a lot of house plants. And then it was like, every DM conversation the guy led with house plants. And I was like, “All I’m doing is talking to men about houseplants.”

Corinne

That’s really funny. Yeah. I mean, how much is there to say?

Virginia

I love houseplants, but I don’t need to tell everyone my most favorite houseplant. So mix it up for your own entertainment. in terms of what you put out there.

Corinne

This is reminding me that at one point I had “I can bake you a pie” or something. And then everyone would be like, “bake me a pie!!” And I’d be like, No. Something to know about me is I’m a good baker. And also, we don’t need to talk about it.

Virginia

You suddenly distill people down to these three nouns about them. Which I guess is just like a necessary stumbling block you have to get over to get to know someone. But it’s sort of a very fake connection to be like, “we both like pie, this must be a soulmate.”

Corinne

And pets, too. Honestly, like people say cute dog and I’m like, yeah, yeah.

Virginia

What are the other things to talk about? Besides like pets and hobbies? I want to hear what other people say to this. What are other good questions to ask?

I mean, we’ve talked plenty about how to suss out fatphobia and diet culture leanings. I think questions that get at values in general are good to get a read on whether you align enough there.

Corinne

Yeah, it does feel more vulnerable, though, to be like, I don’t want to date someone who thinks this, versus I like making pie.

Virginia

I don’t know that I put the values in a profile? I think that’s more once you’re on the date. Once you’re talking you need to do that.

One guy asked me where I most wanted to travel, which was kind of a good question.

Corinne

That’s a fun question.

Virginia

It was fun to think about. I think some of the questions that people send in for us to answer on Indulgence Gospel are good date questions.

Corinne

Five fingers!

Virginia

Five fingers! I just was doing that with my kid this morning. I was like, “What liquids would you put in your fingers?” And she was like, oh, well, pink lemonade and yellow lemonade. And I was like, oh clearly. I didn’t even know she liked lemonade!

Corinne

Mexican Coke and regular Coke.

Virginia

Your finger turns into the cute, tiny bottle. It’s great.

Butter

Corinne

Okay, my butter is the TV show Bad Sisters.

Virginia

I haven’t watched the new season. I’m excited.

Corinne

I just finished the new season and I started watching, and I was sort of like, oh, I don’t know if this show is holding up, but by the end, I was on board.

Virginia

Okay, okay, I’m excited for that. I heard mixed things about the second season, but I loved the first season so much. And I also was a little mixed on there being a second season, because it felt like such a little jewel box of a show, but I love them all so much.

Corinne

They’re just all so fun to watch. And I feel like there’s some real, like, twists and turns, just like the first season, that I really didn’t see coming.

Virginia

Yes. Oh man, so good. Okay, I’m excited for that. That’s a great Butter.

Okay, so my Butter is a card game that I’m playing quite a lot with my seven year old, but also was really fun to play with a group of all ages. And it’s called Taco Cat Goat Cheese Pizza, which is a very popular game. So a lot of people, at least with kids, are going to know it. I don’t know if you’ve played it Corinne.

Corinne

I have not.

Virginia

Okay, well, it’s very simple. You slap the cards down, and you take turns saying taco, cat, goat cheese pizza. And if when you say taco, you put down a taco, you all have to try to grab the card.

But my Butter is that they’ve released expansion packs where now there’s like, even more animals, and you have to do these silly motions. If it’s a panda card, you rub your belly.

And what’s funny about it is like adults tend to be worse at it than kids, because it’s like you have to remember motions and words and kids are just better at it. And it’s hilarious, and it gives us a lot of joy. If you already have it, definitely get the expansion pack, because there’s a moose, I forget what else, but it’s a good time. Oh, there’s pancakes.

Corinne

Wow, sounds really fun.

Virginia

Yeah, it’s cute.