The TODAY Show’s Jenna Bush Hager sits down for a wide-ranging conversation with Kate Bowler. Together, they share about the importance of family and intergenerational relationships (Jenna shares such tender stories about her grandparents), how they hope to let their kids make mistakes and be met with grace, and how they both (try to) find beauty in ordinary, regular days and regular problems.

In this conversation, Kate and Jenna discuss:

How to model openness and empathy across difference (even when people really, really disagree)
Why they want to raise their kids to be curious and independent
How the love of others makes us brave—brave enough to make mistakes (and why that’s okay)

Kate visited Jenna in New York City for this conversation. And Jenna is just as lovely and generous of spirit as you’d imagine.

CW: fertility issues; Alzheimer’s

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here.

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Jenna Bush Hager: Get in the Game