The business of open source - Caleb Porzio (Livewire) and Taylor Otwell (Laravel)
Feb 7, 2025
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Caleb Porzio is a Laravel developer and creator of Livewire, while Taylor Otwell is the brains behind the Laravel framework. In this discussion, they explore whether web development remains a viable career in 2025 and the excitement surrounding the web. They share their journey of balancing creativity with business in open source, emphasizing the importance of sustainability. The duo also delves into the challenges of competition and the evolving landscape of web development education, offering insights for the next generation.
The podcast raises concerns about the accessibility of web development careers for newcomers due to changing industry demands and educational inadequacies.
Participants discuss the tension between creative passion and business viability, emphasizing the importance of balancing both for sustainable operations.
The conversation focuses on the significance of open-source projects and community engagement in shaping web development tools and inspiring the next generation.
Deep dives
The Current State of Web Development
The podcast dives into the current landscape of web development, questioning whether pursuing a career in this field is still worthwhile for young graduates. One participant expresses skepticism about recommending web development as a career due to recent hiring trends that seem to favor more experienced candidates, leaving new entrants struggling to find jobs. There’s a concern that programming boot camps may not adequately prepare newcomers for the complexities of modern web technologies, pointing to a potential disconnect between industry requirements and educational offerings. Additionally, the group discusses how the evolving nature of web development skills has raised the bar for entry, making the field seem less accessible to newcomers.
Balancing Creation and Business
The podcast touches on the inherent tension between being a creator and running a business, a struggle many developers face. Participants share their experiences with this conflict, highlighting how passion for building can sometimes clash with the need to generate revenue and maintain a sustainable operation. They explore the importance of staying true to one’s creative instincts while also making practical decisions to ensure business viability. This conversation reveals that many entrepreneurs find fulfillment in following their creative pursuits, even when faced with the pressures of business expectations.
Navigating Market Challenges
The discussion shifts to the broader market challenges within web development, such as layoffs and evolving hiring practices in tech companies. The participants note that many developers, particularly those fresh out of college, are experiencing difficulties securing roles, leading to concerns about the overall job market's health. They also reflect on how fluctuating economic conditions can impact hiring strategies and the potential oversaturation of technologies. The conversation emphasizes that the tech landscape is on a seesaw, with waves of hiring and layoffs that developers must navigate carefully.
The Role of Open Source and Community
The podcast highlights the crucial role of open-source projects and community involvement in shaping the landscape of web development tools. Participants discuss their experiences in developing popular open-source frameworks and the responsibilities that come with maintaining them in a vibrant developer community. They emphasize that while open-source contributions can drive technological advancements, they can also lead to feelings of ownership and entitlement among users. Furthermore, there’s a recognition that building a supportive community around these projects is essential for long-term success.
Future Aspirations in Web Development
The panel explores their aspirations for the future of web development, emphasizing the need to inspire younger developers entering the field. They discuss ways to make development more accessible, including the potential impact of emerging technologies like AI on the learning curve for new programmers. The conversation suggests a need for initiatives that bridge the generational gap and foster enthusiasm for building, emphasizing the encouragement of creativity and innovation in young developers. Ultimately, the group expresses hope that by focusing on community-building and education, they can positively influence the future workforce in tech.
Is web development still a good career choice in 2025? What's the future of open source? Justin and Brian dive deep with Taylor Otwell (Laravel) and Caleb Porzio (Livewire, Alpine.js, Flux) about the state of web dev, building a business on open source, and the anxiety of managing competition.
Chapters:
(03:31) - Should people still pursue web development as a career?
(11:04) - Are we still excited about the web? Why is Laravel growing?
(16:27) - How big are your customers?
(25:23) - How interested are developers on the business side of Saas?
(34:39) - How did you think about open source when you were getting started?
(41:19) - How do you think about being a creator when you have a large business?
(55:57) - The next generation pipeline
(01:00:47) - Rethinking open source
(01:10:52) - What's your anxiety level towards competition?