Join Johnathan Bi, an entrepreneur and philosopher with a math and computer science background, as he dives into René Girard's mimetic theory. He discusses how our desires are shaped by imitation and the quest for authenticity in a socially influenced world. Bi critiques modern views on desire, reflecting on body image ideals and the philosophical underpinnings of social existence. The conversation also delves into the limitations of traditional economics, examining how values and identity influence decision-making and the intricate relationship between trade and peace.
Desires are driven by a mix of utility and self-conception, influenced by social models and values.
Maintaining authenticity in desires requires choosing social circles that align with fundamental values.
Gerard's theory challenges traditional economic thinking by emphasizing the influence of social forces on human behavior.
Deep dives
Gerard's Metaphysical and Physical Desires
In this podcast episode, the guest discusses the thought of Renee Gerard, focusing on his distinction between metaphysical desire and physical desire. According to Gerard, physical desire is the desire for utility, for what objects can provide us in and of themselves. On the other hand, metaphysical desire is the desire for identity, for what objects say about us. The guest provides examples, such as desiring to eat at a prestigious restaurant for the type of self-conception it bolsters. Gerard suggests that these desires are fundamentally social in nature, as humans are seen as fundamentally social creatures, influenced by the models and values associated with certain objects. The guest also explores the implications of Gerard's theory for normative certainty, criticizing the Enlightenment's focus on reason and the romanticism of personal intuition. Overall, the podcast delves into the complexities of understanding and fulfilling our desires in a social context.
Impartial Spectators and Authenticity
The podcast explores the concept of an impartial spectator and the challenges of maintaining authenticity in our desires. It references Adam Smith's idea of the impartial spectator, who judges our actions based on societal norms and values. However, the guest argues that Gerard offers a different perspective by suggesting that our moral values are fundamentally anchored in models associated with objects or people. The desire for recognition and approval of these models influences our actions and choices. The guest raises the question of how to integrate our physical desires, personal values, and the desire for recognition, highlighting the tension between social pressures and true authenticity. The importance of choosing social circles that align with our fundamental desires is emphasized. Moreover, the podcast highlights the difficulty of maintaining authenticity in a world where social forces strongly influence our actions and desires.
Economics and Gerard's Theory
In the podcast, the speaker discusses the relationship between economics and Gerard's theory of desire. The guest mentions how modern economics has often focused on individuals as autonomous beings driven by self-interest. However, the podcast challenges this view and highlights Gerard's belief that humans are fundamentally social creatures who are influenced by their social environment and the desire for recognition. It acknowledges the contributions of economist Gary Becker, who attempted to incorporate social interactions into economic theory. The guest also recognizes the limitations of traditional economic models, which tend to overlook the complexities of social and metaphysical desires. The podcast raises questions about incorporating qualitative aspects and the role of social forces in economic analysis. It concludes by suggesting that Gerard's theory presents a challenge to the foundations of modern economic thinking.
The Influence of Romanticism on Authenticity
In this podcast episode, the speaker examines the concept of authenticity and its connection to romanticism. They challenge the idea that authenticity is achieved by separating oneself from societal norms and argue that this viewpoint confuses difference for autonomy. The speaker emphasizes that being different from the group does not necessarily equate to being authentic. They use the example of Marlon Brando's character in 'The Wild Ones' to highlight the danger of rebelling without a clear purpose or identity. Ultimately, the podcast explores how romanticism can distort our understanding of authenticity.
The Role of Social Influences on Identity
This podcast episode delves into the influence of social factors on individual identity. The speaker discusses how we are drawn to imitate those who possess certain qualities or values that we admire. They emphasize that imitation is not merely replicating actions, but rather adopting or imitating values. They argue that our sense of self and identity is shaped by the cultures we are a part of and the models we are exposed to. The conversation touches on the significance of social belonging, recognition, and how our choices and decisions reflect our self-conception. The speaker also highlights the limitations of economic modeling when it comes to understanding the complexity of human behavior.
When the 20-year-old overachiever Johnathan Bi's first startup crashed and burned, he headed to a Zen retreat in the Catskills to "debug himself." He discovered René Girard and his mimetic theory--the idea that imitation is a key and often unconscious driver of human behavior. Listen as entrepreneur and philosopher Bi shares with EconTalk host Russ Roberts what he learned from Girard and Girard's insights into how we meet our primal need for money, fame, and power. The conversation includes the contrasts between economics and Girard's perspective.
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