Radiolab producer Rachael Cusick talks together with her grandmother about their shared loss, and about their experiences with Elisabeth Kübler-Ross's five stages of grief.

Listen to Rachael's Radiolab episode "The Queen of Dying," about the story and legacy of Elisabeth Kübler-Ross.

And read Rachael Cusick's Modern Love essay for The New York Times, about her relationship with her grandmother.

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When Grief Doesn't Move In Stages